Stevej
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Posts posted by Stevej
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22 minutes ago, dirtystack said:
You could also get magnets and see how possible it is to make something hover. Unless it is very rigidly held in place its not going to work the way you think. The ball would not get stuck in a repelling state, it would naturally seek to rotate itself to the attraction state - the spin on roulette ball would not be enough centrifugal force to stop the self correcting rotation for any noticeable duration.
That is if there were a magnet in both the ball and the wheel which would be silly. The magnet set up you have in mind would only be practical if there was magnets in the wheel, can have 37 of them, one in each number, individually activated and have a piece of magnetic material in the ball (Lead for example, any metal that is attracted to a magnet), this way it would only ever attract the ball and not repel it.
It would be a massive oversight for the evil scientists at Evilution to put a magnet in the ball when just a little metal in the ball, and the above 37 individually activated magnets in the wheel, would be infinitely simpler to execute.
A magnet in the ball would need the whole wheel to be made out of non magnetic material - roulette wheels are heavy lumps of metal that are finished in the varnished wood effect we all love.
Regardless, I'm not saying anything is impossible- just leaving out some food for thought/shower thoughts.
That was actually a really good comment and progress in this conversation. It made me think about this scenario again from new perspective.
I still think the most logical explanation for me is that there’s a repelling force from the number 14 while the wheel rotational force is pushing against that and holding the ball in the middle of 14 & 20 - or repelling forces from slots 14 & 20.
This system is really complex to calculate but simulating this few billion times would give a good insight. But nobody’s knows the measures of this wheel.
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19 minutes ago, hateTINfoils said:
Stevej once again you show how dumb you are.
This is your first post in this whole topic, now read your own stupid words and tell me WHERE ARE YOU FOCUSING ON TOPIC ABOUT BALL STUCK ??????
Nowhere! You jumped straight away to call them
"pyramid scheme""all the games are rigged".
"It's all corrupted and biggest scam"
So where are your facts, show us at least one! Because you have none just big mouth with 0 knowledge about math and I am pretty sure literally about everything....Facts in your ass. Nobody has the facts. It’s my OPINION idiot.
It would be nice to hear some good theories about that specific roulette ball case though.
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3 hours ago, dirtystack said:
It is only you who can’t see that they have been completely picked apart.
I work in the industry yes, I don’t have any desire to defend the industry, I don’t see casinos as beneficial to society. If all casinos closed overnight I’d be upset that I’d have nowhere to gamble - not that I’d be out of a job.
I just don’t like, and we discussed this in previous posts, people stating opinion as fact or lying to emphasis their point.
Stating that a ball is defying the laws of physics when you don’t have a clue about physics….
My opinion is that wild conjecture, and the above mentioned lying, undermine any valid discussion as to the legitimacy of anything.
Actually I do understand physics a little, but this system is really complex to calculate.
Everybody’s having opinions here. Opinions like ”well, things just happen” are the worst. It’s just like ”I don’t wanna think about it, it can’t be magnets cause it’s Evolution”.
That’s why you guys are focusing on everything else than this actual topic.
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2 hours ago, dirtystack said:
I enjoyed that.
He’s back, a one more guy from the industry btw 😂
So any other good explanations for a hovering roulette ball?
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1 minute ago, joshnadin said:
I'm not saying it's about lowering or manipulating the RTP. Even though it is.. The whole point in 'rigging' a game would be to increase the house edge for the casino or provider to make more money. No matter how they would choose to do that, it would always affect the RTP of the game.
I'm saying it would be mathematically impossible to alter the game in any way, shape, or form, to increase the house advantage without somehow affecting the RTP of the game. You simply can not do it. If the game is paying out in line with the RTP that is stated, the casino and game operator are not applying any kind of advantage to the house that is not already very clearly shown in the game rules.
You do understand that, right?
You're not going to explain it to me now, because you can't.
You will also not be able to explain it to me in the future.
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You have just given conclusive evidence that directly contradicts your own theory.
I don't think we need to continue the conversation.
Ok, that’s fine!
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11 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
I just want to clarify that you're actually being serious.
You're stating that you've even collected your own independent data to show that games are exactly in line with the stated RTP, but yet the games are somehow still rigged?
Please, please, please tell me how you can rig a game to be in any way unfair towards the player if the RTP of that game is in-line with what is clearly advertised? How could a casino be applying any kind of unfair advantage if the maths is clearly showing you that the game is operating how it is advertised?
All you're doing is contradicting yourself and providing further evidence against your own theories.
I can not wait to hear what your imagination of what 'rigging is'.. 😂
I would be thrilled to hear how operators are rigging games if you, yourself are telling me you're fully aware they're paying out as they should do. Please, go on..
It’s super weird that people think that rigging is about lowering/manipulating the rtp. It’s black-and-white and naive (sorry, but it is) thinking.
Word ”rigged” in Evo case means that it’s legal, but slot machines/software games are in a disguise of live casino games, like somebody said that.
I’ll do some video & web app about ”rigging” in future.
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3 minutes ago, hateTINfoils said:
I think it is time we discuss these events as well, they ALL MUST BE RIGGED just looked at them.....
the whole world is just rigged!
Fantastic explanation for our roulette scenario once again. These events added together removes the option that Evo has magnets.
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6 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
Only two people here are stating to have worked in the industry. I'm not defending anything, I'm applying logic and common sense to a scenario. I don't care if a certain provider is rigged or not. Fuck, I wish it was rigged! The amount of money I could make exposing them would set me up for life.
Plus, we know what we're talking about. Do you know how many people are employed by these organisations? Don't tell me that not one person would know the 'truth' and not expose them.
No one said you're not allowed to question anything. Questioning things is good, and no one should ever just take things at face value in life.
It's when you're getting to the point of questioning gravity in the Evo studios, Steve. It's the absolutely insane accusations and wild theories.
When you act like the people who think 5G is a mind control technology, and the people who think the world is flat, you get treated in the same tin foil category.If you'd bother to actually read what I've been saying, I've provided numerous other points apart from this. But, that aside, the fact that they don't need to rig the games is one more sensible point that any of you have made.
Not only do they not need to do, it would be the opposite of beneficial to them.We've talked about how the wheel operates, you even asked for the patent which I provided. You had no response. I've told you that because the provider doesn't pay out and it's the casino, that there would be no sustainable formula to rigging the game, but you have no response and don't want to know.
You clearly have no idea of what an impossible physical scenario is, do you. There is a huge difference between highly improbable, and impossible. Just like your friend, you have zero understanding of how random events, odds and maths work.
We have analysed the event. Not that we need to. You're just focusing on things that don't suit your narrative. Again, just like your friend.
You're in no position to call anyone naïve. You keep throwing the word around.
The definition of the word is 'showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.'You have no experience in what you're talking about. You clearly do not understand the topic at all, the nonsense you're spouting shows that. It is 100% clear you have no wisdom, as you're not able to look at a situation from a sensible standpoint and accept that a strange outcome in a game of chance is just that, a strange outcome. But no, it must categorically be rigged. You're unable to apply any kind of reasonable judgement outside the insane train of thought that you have and don't want to know anything that doesn't support your frankly worrying belief.
Can we stop throwing naïve around when you're continuously demonstrating you're the definition of the word.
Not sorry, but yes. It does in fact work.
What the fuck does that even mean? Actually take a minute to read what you've written. It isn't coherent. 'Evolution is not a live casino'. 'The evolution of live casino working like slot machines'.
What are you talking about?
Gibberish. Absolute gibberish.Once again, you haven't 'noticed' shit. All you've seen is a YouTube video of an improbable event.
Of course you will know what's going on under the hood. Anyone that's been gambling for a sustained period of time can analyse their profit and loss and see if it's somewhere in line with the expected RTP of any game. Of course, some people will be over the expected RTP, some people will be under. But out of all those data samples, you will find an average that is extremely close to what you would expect games to operate at, with the RTP they state.
Go and ask your online casinos for your personal statistics and prove me wrong. Please.
I’m a software engineer. I know some maths actually. I know how rng works. I have analyzed these games with simple javascript apps and I know really well that every game rtp is absolutely correct. Yes, precise, correct, perfectly right. Your imagination of rigging is probably then quite limited.
I may write non-clear jibberish now cause english is not my main language and my motivation to argue with guys like you is dying. So better to read your fantastic theories from now on.
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What connects every ”defender” here: 1) worked in the industry 2) putting every person (who question these games) to the same tinfoil category 3) repeating the same thing over and over again: casinos do not need to rig the games 4) taking the conversation out of this impossible physical scenario, not analysing the actual event at all 5) being naive as fuck while trying to be smart
Sorry, but it doesn’t work.Legal in USA. Yes. Evolution is not a live casino. It’s the evolution of legalized live casino working like slot machines. They can still try to hide it.
Somebody asked why aren’t we talking about rigged slots? Fucking stupid question but I’ll answer. The answer is that in these live games you notice all this shit happening because they should be live games. In slots it’s all software and you wil never know what’s happening under the hood.
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37 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
As I mentioned way back at the beginning, that's because these things happen way more often than you would think.
Your exposure to a roulette wheel in a casino over 15 years is nowhere near that of multiple auto-roulette wheels consistently spinning thousands of times, every single day, from different providers. You just can't use that as any kind of basis for what you're saying.
Regardless of if I'm in the industry, or have worked with Evo, it's not about getting emotional or being sensitive. It's about common sense and logic. Looking at perfectly reasonable explanations, and you not wanting to know, for whatever reason.
I did use paint to crop the image actually! Thanks for noticing! 😁
You can ask me for whatever credentials you want, and I'll be happy to provide them so long as any sensitive information is not shared.
But, I can't continue to try and have any form of intelligent conversation with someone who thought a land based casino game has no RTP. That just shows how much you don't understand the topic you're talking about. Everything you've 'contributed' has zero intelligence, sense, or reason behind it.
As for categorically denying all form of perfectly reasonable explanation and instead insisting that things must be 'rigged', whatever you think rigged is, I'd say you're the far more likely candidate for taking drugs too often.
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If you come across any actual evidence, data, or sensible theory whatsoever, I'll be happy to continue a discussion with you. Until that point, it's like trying to convince Flat Earthers that they're not bat shit crazy for denying simple science, and all rhyme and reason that de-bunks their bizarre conspiracy theories.
I'll leave you all to your circle jerk. Enjoy! 🙂
No point of bringing any evidence to you. You wouldn’t step out from your bubble even the ball was flying around that room. And nobody cares if you don’t wanna even question this thing. I’m telling here people to be careful when they play. It’s the stupidiest thing in the world to play live casino games - hosted from Latvia, licensed from Malta - without question how the games work.
And you just told everybody you work with these companies so totally understand your naive thinking.
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2 hours ago, Jeroen83 said:
Ok, you need to login, be 18 years and above to watch content of Rocknrolla, but geez, watch that last spin on 33:53. Cant be real.
I’ve seen these weird scenarios happening too often. In every game I’ve played from Evolution. It’s not like one-two videos from Youtube - it’s new videos every second day. That video doesn’t prove anything like not any of the previous videos, because always somebody come up with new lack of gravity theories. But I have also played roulette in a land-based casino 15 years and never seen things like these happening.
I understand if people work for Evolution or have worked in the industry this is probably pretty sensitive topic and people get emotional when someone telling you the games are rigged.
Keep on posting more stuff/shit/whatever!
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10 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
Evolution do not own the patents for the auto-roulette wheel that they use. They pay another company to make the wheel for them.
The patent for all variations of Auto Roulette using pressurised air to operate is owned by - https://www.cammegh.com/
You can find the details of what that patent consists of here - https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1613405B1/en
Okey, thanks for the info.
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Where can I find the patents made by Evolution?
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5 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
Go and hire a physicist and give them an unlimited budget, and get them to try and recreate what happened by designing a roulette wheel with magnets, or whatever other technology you want to incorporate. They will tell you it's practically impossible, and you're more likely to recreate the exact same event quicker by spinning the ball as many times as you can until the same thing inevitably happens again by chance.
Even after months of trail and error trying to recreate what happened, I can assure you that the same wheel designed with magnets or other result altering technology would not operate naturally on a spin-by-spin basis, and it would be extremely noticeable in the way the ball drops and is guided to a specific number on the wheel.
But again, we're missing the most important point here, that game providers do not need to rig their games, and it would actually not be beneficial to them, nor the casinos.
We've already established that the game provider does not pay out or take the money from the game result. It's the online casino. I've explained why this would not be sustainable. Myself and others have applied lots of logic as to why this simply wouldn't happen.
Yet, you're still here screaming:
I knew that the conversation goes to this meme level at some point.
Good luck with the games!
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If we think about the physics of the wheel, it is million times more likely that the ball gets stuck between the numbers because some (magnetic) force is pushing it compared to the pure rotation force situation.
But you think it’s still the rotation force and lack of gravity in the closed Latvian studio?
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2 hours ago, dirtystack said:
Just refer to any of your posts and you'll find such gems as:
It absolutely has been proven that it works this way beyond a doubt, at least I think so, I believe it must work this way, but maybe it doesn't, but I think it must so that is proof enough for me.
You said about crazy time after explaining how it works(in your head):
It obviously works on some RTP based type thing...
You can refute that you said such things if you like, prone to lies and wild exaggerations as you are.
Your "personal opinion" is not "research" you plum.
you moan that it is all rigged and inform people in a way that implies you have some inside knowledge about how slots work, - including that ridiculous theory stated as fact about how casinos are coded to return a percentage of deposits to the player. You then go on to win 135k and shortly after you are to be found in another post using the fact that you just won 135k as a counterargument to someone who made a post about how it is all rigged... literally within the same week.
Constantly calling everyone else integrity into question as you are the only one with any integrity - bemoan how everyone is exploiting everyone else, except you - you are different.
People need to wake up and realise their whole world fucking view is dependant on whether or not they are running hot or cold.
@Stevej you only get one use of your little shutdown referencing my past, singular, mistake. There are hundreds of posts you have made which are absolute gibberish, I'll copy paste a Stevej gibberish compendium together when I get time.
Instead of writing these ”you’re asshole, idiot, everything you write makes no sense” let’s keep the focus on this topic.
Yes of course, the game works certain way in my head and it works certain way in your head. Everything I write here is my personal opinion. Always. I can say CT has a motor, roulette has magnets and everyone but you realizes it’s my opinion, not the scientific fact. But just keep on playing live casino. I know many of us has already stopped playing.
Does anyone know the weight of that roulette ball?
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Getting back to the original topic. I still think there’s no option the wheel would hover the ball between the numbers. But just my personal opinion.
Do your research.
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3 minutes ago, dirtystack said:
@joshnadin good luck mate. I can't stomach how SteveJ will state things as fact when he really has no clue.
As for Live Casinos online:
I have a feeling Pragmatic is going to slowly take some of Evolutions live casino market share - their offering is good and only getting better,
If Pragmatic can emulate the success they have had in the last couple of years with slots then they may even eclipse Evolution.
Also, lol to the guy who said there is no RTP in landbased casinos, says it all you need to know about the minds involved in this circle jerk.
But at least @dirtystack has showed his skills when counting to 100 referring to one old post… 😂
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21 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
Sure! I'm actually looking forward to seeing the data.
I've got to give you credit that you are collecting a sample and looking at it somewhat objectively too.Okay, but then people also regularly deposit and lose way more than they can afford to do on sports betting, slots, bingo, poker, and many other game types. Yes, it is the most popular product at the moment. I get many other providers looking for my consulting services asking how they can compete with Evo and make something like CT as they all realise how much of a cash cow it is. My general response is that for the money it will take to create, it won't be able to compete in the market as Evo dominate it, so don't bother. But, it honestly isn't rigged or manipulated.
As a business, evaluating the levels of risk is essential. If everything is not 100% above board, then the risk is that your brand will lose its licence, never be able to trade again, have to refund millions upon millions in wagers, pay millions upon millions again in fines, and lose all confidence with its players and shareholders. It's not logical to put an already extremely profitable business at risk of bankruptcy and criminal proceedings for some extra profit.
Evolution spends an amount you wouldn't believe to ensure that all of their live games are completely above board and nobody can ever turn around and have a legitimate case against them for manipulation. One of the top expenses, if not the top, for them year on year, is for the compliance and risk department. They don't want to get it wrong, because they understand the consequences of getting it wrong, intentionally, or unintentionally.
Evolution became a billion dollar company because that have invested a lot of money, a lot of hours, marketed effectively, offered unique products, been the first to market with those products, have a fantastic understanding of the gambling industry, have some extremely intelligent people working for them, plus many other factors. All it would take it one disgruntled employee, to blow the whistle. One employee who knows how much financial gain they could make from exposing them. There hasn't been and there never will be as everything is legit. As the largest and most popular provider out there, they are under the spotlight more than anyone else when it comes to compliance.
Yes, I agree. They have smart people, no doubt about it.
I’ll show you some data so when can continue discussing.
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38 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
😂😂😂
A little logic applied and you spit your dummy out, huh?
You do realise that it's the online casino that pays out, and not the provider, right?
So, if what you're saying could potentially happen, is happening, that would leave drastic differences in profit/loss for every single online casino using Evo as a provider. So, do they even it out and give every casino a 'fair share' of the rigging? Or, what?
The more you look into it as a possibility, the more and more ridiculous it becomes.Again, there is no such thing as a specific number that is the best theoretical outcome for profit or loss as it's not the provider paying out. Each individual online casino using Evo for that spin will differ on which number would be the most profitable or the biggest loss depending on what numbers the players at that particular casino are betting on. So again, logic applied, and your theory is redundant.
Yes, I do have experience with the auditing process.
The games undergo thorough vetting and auditing before release, and during the life cycle of the game.Are you serious?
This just shows how much you don't actually understand RTP, or anything to do with what you're talking about.
Of fucking course land based casinos have, and advertise RTP! It's actually a legal requirement for them to display the RTP and house edge of each game clearly on a leaflet readily available inside the casino premises, usually located by the cash desk.
I can't even continue to try and have an intelligent debate with you when you're under the assumption that a land based casino game 'doesn't have an RTP'. 😂 👋Neither pal! I just use a bit of logic and common sense! You should take off the tin foil hat and try it sometime. It's great!
Actually, no. It's not.
Super unlikely. But not 'against the physics'.I may be interested in your data sample and be willing to discuss it, if the data was independently verified, which it is not. It's a pet project of someone who is bias toward one scenario.
But you've just answered your own question as to why they really, really don't need to manipulate or 'rig' the games. They already generate a ridiculous amount of money. Do you think they would be willing to risk that by getting caught, and putting their whole brand and reputation at risk? It's not good business, and believe me, these providers and casinos know all about good business and how to make money.I’ll come back to this as soon as I have time to update the code. I have also collected about 500k spins data of CT. I’m really interested in these wheel games and how they work. Let’s discuss about it later then.
I think you don’t realise the whole picture of this rigging thing. The biggest benefit by manipulating the games is that they can affect how much people will deposit on casinos and the game. Lots of people deposits way more especially in these wheel games what they can afford to. It’s absolutely by far the most popular game of Evolution. That’s how they became a billion dollar company.
Many people think that ”oh it’s so cool and nice design and everything” and that’s why Crazy Time is so popular, but no. It’s so popular because it pays big and you see the history of spins. You know what happened there yesterday or an hour ago. Think about it for a while.
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@joshnadinI think you’re either super naive or trying to save somebody’s ass.
The rotating angle and the speed is too slow for holding that ball for one minute on that place. It’s against the physics.
Little off topic, about Evolution and my favorite game Crazy Time: I showed in an another post that Crazy Time has a motor/some breaking system by doing a simple javascript based simulator for that game. It simulates 1000 billion (or more) spins of that game. I compared the variance of certain situations. You can search it on this forum and I can send the updated version of the code when I have some time to work on it.
The whole live casino of Evolution gaming is manipulated, but probably it’s legal, don’t know about that. When they release a new game, they can’t perfectly know how it works, how popular it will be, how people will play the game. By ”rigging” the game they can also tweak the game later on. I can find a million good reason to add magnets, motors, whatever on these games.
These games generates the amounts of money that’s never seen before by a game provider. They want to make better and better results every Q. This is the reason for rigging everything. Full control, endless growing potential.
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11 minutes ago, Stevej said:
Well, you might be overstating a little? I’ve played roulette in an landbased casino many years. I’ve never seen the ball defying gravity. It can bounce like crazy but it always lands.
I’m not screaming now that these machines are rigged, but.. Did you watch the video? There’s absolutely no other possibility that some force is pushing the ball from slots 14 and 20 so it stays in the middle. Over a minute - not second, or two, but a minute. The ball can’t land between the numbers. If there was some area on the wheel that ball would stay there, it was fixed immediately.
And with all respect, if you had worked in a gaming industry your whole life, that doesn’t help that much.
Again I’m not saying that these games are rigged cause everybody hates that, but gaming industry probably changes all the time. The business is tough and gambling providers want to be like Tesla. Probably roulette wheels were different 20 years ago. You haven’t designed these modern games. You have no idea what’s happening there. You don’t have to know it. In live casino, I bet hosts agree MDA for the games, though probably they don’t know all the techinal details of the games, cause they don’t need to.
I have also 15 years of experience from the gaming industry as a player. It has changed a lot. The weirdest things have happened last years.
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8 minutes ago, joshnadin said:
Hey, ex croupier with 10+ years experience in the gaming industry here.. 👋
So, I'm positively going to tell you that there are 100% not magnets, and no, I do not need to get myself checked.
Some funky things happen on the roulette wheel all the time, and they look super unnatural and seem to defy the laws of physics. But, they are in fact perfectly natural and normal.The way these auto roulette wheels work is pressurised air. You can hear the air grabbing the ball before every spin. It's the exact same technology you will find in the majority of land based casinos that offer auto-roulette without a croupier spinning the ball. But, I've seen just as funky things happen, if not more funky on a regular, perfectly balanced roulette wheel with a croupier spinning the ball.
When you introduce a bouncy roulette ball spinning at high velocity, dropping into a wheel spinning the opposite direction, seemingly strange things happen. I would see something that seemed to defy physics at least once every shift.
I would be more inclined to say that the live games are rigged if things like this didn't happen from time to time.
You've also got to remember that whatever result was from the spin that looks strange, is that someone playing at the time likely benefited from it, even if you did not.Again, it's time to take off the tin foil hats and screaming that everything is rigged without any evidence or data to backup your claims. We've gone into detail time and time again as to why casinos and game providers don't need to do this, and it would be more harmful than beneficial to them.
Well, you might be overstating a little? I’ve played roulette in an landbased casino many years. I’ve never seen the ball defying gravity. It can bounce like crazy but it always lands.
I’m not screaming now that these machines are rigged, but.. Did you watch the video? There’s absolutely no other possibility that some force is pushing the ball from slots 14 and 20 so it stays in the middle. Over a minute - not second, or two, but a minute. The ball can’t land between the numbers. If there was some area on the wheel that ball would stay there, it was fixed immediately.
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Do casinos have these tools on their backend? Why on earth??
Lightning Roulette, yeah keep playing it
in Casinos & Sports
Posted
More good Evo stuff here:
And interesting real life experiment (with small sample size though):
(link removed. regards, mod.)
No facts but it’s too weird stuff. Kindly asking game providers to redesign the roulette wheels - but probably they don’t want to.