Stevej
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Posts posted by Stevej
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This whole Evolution thing is getting more and more ridicilous. This video is not from real gameplay. It’s fake - like the whole company.
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It's all rigged, but it's nothing new. Don't waste your money on that provider's games.
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This is the reason I stopped playing these games. All the games.
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Yeah, I agree.
And what you can see from my statistics - they don't lie - the most common topslot symbol is Crazy Time (except number 1 and 2) and it usually hits with some multiplier. That's the fact. Good for players, or is it?
Somebody told here in the forums that the probability of getting CT with 50x multiplier is 1:10000000 (or something like that, sorry I don't remember the number), that's not true because the topslot result is emphasized to CT bonus. The probability is way higher. Good for players, or is it?
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3 minutes ago, The Reel Story said:
Rigging wouldn't achieve any of those things. RTP is calculated across all players. It's the total money staked on the game vs the total paid out. So limiting the big payouts to only when there are less players would simply reduce the RTP.
No, I don't think so. RTP for Crazy Time bonus is calculated when you keep on rolling that bonus like 1 billions rounds. They can't model how much players would win/bet in certain times.
By the way, you can see the amount of players of Crazy Time here: https://evotracker.live/
It varies a lot from 1000 players to 9000 players depending of time, or if it's week/weekend.
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16 minutes ago, The Reel Story said:
No, it's not legal and no, the Casino's do not take that risk (they don't need to. The games make money legally using maths and statistics).
The RNG's are certified as random by independent bodies and any manipulation of the RNG or the game results would indeed be illegal, lose a Casino their license and basically put them out of business. No Casino in a regulated market will take that risk.
All the games work on mathematical models that statistically make money (Crazy Time is no exception). As always, there is no reason to 'rig' the game and take that risk, the game already makes money perfectly legally by having a profitable math model.
All games publish their RTP (which is calculated based on the math model of the game). If a game were to be significantly out from its RTP, the regulator would get involved and check it. So 'rigging' a game would still need to produce a result that met the RTP. If the math model of the game already produces this result normally, what would be the point in rigging it to produce the same result? 🙂
Their RTP is definitely correct. No doubt about it. But I have to copy my answer from the another post.
People often don't realise that rigging the game has many benefits. The reason is not that they would win anyway so no point for rigging. The real reasons are:
1) Making people to deposit and play more money
2) Making people more addictive in the game
3) Make people think that the bonus / big win must hit soon
They could also multiply their winnings if they avoid certain situations like paying big wins when 9000 players actively playing the game. I'm not saying that they do this, but I'm just talking about the benefits of rigging - and it's not about tweaking the rtp.
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2 hours ago, gypsycream26 said:
Played this for quite a while , it's not random in any way , shape , or form , Cash Hunt for eg , they calculate who has what and what square chosen etc etc before the reveal so they know full well how much they are paying out , for me it's just a fun wheel game and i would only advise small stakes and infrequent visit's to play it rather than play it all day and lose hundreds or thousands.
It really is just your luck if you arrive and are playing at the right time if and when they decide to give a massive win. So many factors involved and even when you get Crazy Time hit you need to be lucky enough to choose the best paying colour !!
Should be a random wheel as i said earlier but having played it for a year or so and watching it without betting i am convinced it is all controlled. The same goes for Monopoly and all other wheel games.
Yes, I agree. I've made that mistake in the past. I played it too high stakes and lost lots of money. It's fun game, but super sad it's rigged. I believe all the games are rigged.
I wanted to show these statistics that people would be really careful when playing these games. These machines work with rng's that are highly manipulated. For @Nobby 's question, I believe they are not doing anything illegal. Laws allow them to manipulate these games, or tweak them in their favor, if they will be at least some randomness.
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Another interesting detail. This game emphasises topslots on certain results like crazy time, clearly. It makes it more addictive. That explains quite many hits in Crazy Time bonus with multis in short period of time. If you play this game - don't play number ten - they've dropped the odds for that.
Topslot appearance:
Number 5
1033 times without multiplier
3828 times with multiplierNumber 10
751 times without multiplier
2878 times with multiplierCash Hunt
1184 times without multiplier
4036 times with multiplierCoin Flip
1171 times without multiplier
3905 times with multiplierPachinco
1326 times without multiplier
4742 times with multiplierCrazy time
1560 times without multiplier
5517 times with multiplier -
I finally got some Crazy Time data and analyzed it. Few interesting details showed up. One of them is the topslot multipliers & wheel results. Data is from the last 47000 spins (about one month).
Wheel results with top slot multiplier 25x or 50xNumber 1
20 Apr 2021 0:52:35 - 25X, Winners : 803
20 Apr 2021 1:48:31 - 25X, Winners : 424
20 Apr 2021 5:17:38 - 25X, Winners : 348
20 Apr 2021 11:14:16 - 25X, Winners : 373
20 Apr 2021 18:18:13 - 50X, Winners : 652
21 Apr 2021 22:39:52 - 25X, Winners : 853
23 Apr 2021 14:46:54 - 50X, Winners : 469
24 Apr 2021 7:17:10 - 25X, Winners : 328
25 Apr 2021 0:57:0 - 25X, Winners : 1097
25 Apr 2021 20:17:9 - 25X, Winners : 1129
25 Apr 2021 20:57:31 - 25X, Winners : 725
26 Apr 2021 6:39:5 - 50X, Winners : 419
28 Apr 2021 3:49:56 - 25X, Winners : 546
28 Apr 2021 6:5:41 - 25X, Winners : 300
28 Apr 2021 8:44:26 - 25X, Winners : 488
28 Apr 2021 22:23:54 - 25X, Winners : 1210
28 Apr 2021 23:23:10 - 25X, Winners : 1223
1 May 2021 8:59:39 - 50X, Winners : 484
1 May 2021 13:44:8 - 25X, Winners : 507
2 May 2021 1:5:45 - 50X, Winners : 1213
3 May 2021 2:42:55 - 25X, Winners : 879
3 May 2021 4:42:40 - 25X, Winners : 567
3 May 2021 17:40:1 - 25X, Winners : 932
4 May 2021 3:0:20 - 50X, Winners : 586
5 May 2021 11:20:10 - 25X, Winners : 631
5 May 2021 17:51:55 - 25X, Winners : 810
5 May 2021 22:17:19 - 25X, Winners : 1613
6 May 2021 17:36:52 - 50X, Winners : 1526
7 May 2021 9:8:29 - 25X, Winners : 683
9 May 2021 23:55:31 - 50X, Winners : 1691
10 May 2021 8:32:34 - 25X, Winners : 570
10 May 2021 12:38:28 - 50X, Winners : 607
10 May 2021 15:10:36 - 25X, Winners : 935
11 May 2021 0:14:43 - 25X, Winners : 1373
11 May 2021 13:20:20 - 25X, Winners : 688
11 May 2021 15:10:29 - 25X, Winners : 1049
12 May 2021 1:22:43 - 25X, Winners : 1353
12 May 2021 5:46:16 - 25X, Winners : 708
13 May 2021 0:59:11 - 50X, Winners : 1824
13 May 2021 4:34:34 - 25X, Winners : 795
14 May 2021 15:43:17 - 25X, Winners : 1252
15 May 2021 6:3:23 - 25X, Winners : 466
15 May 2021 13:39:29 - 25X, Winners : 706
16 May 2021 12:48:58 - 25X, Winners : 605
17 May 2021 11:41:28 - 50X, Winners : 844
17 May 2021 20:17:30 - 50X, Winners : 1174
17 May 2021 21:20:39 - 25X, Winners : 1697Number 2
20 Apr 2021 12:55:25 - 25X, Winners : 486
21 Apr 2021 0:37:33 - 25X, Winners : 1188
21 Apr 2021 15:47:52 - 50X, Winners : 896
24 Apr 2021 2:32:52 - 25X, Winners : 1449
24 Apr 2021 11:34:49 - 25X, Winners : 724
26 Apr 2021 2:55:6 - 50X, Winners : 1211
27 Apr 2021 21:51:35 - 25X, Winners : 1526
28 Apr 2021 2:32:51 - 50X, Winners : 1008
29 Apr 2021 3:20:30 - 25X, Winners : 547
29 Apr 2021 21:17:42 - 25X, Winners : 1254
30 Apr 2021 2:48:14 - 25X, Winners : 1450
1 May 2021 18:25:25 - 25X, Winners : 870
2 May 2021 18:50:54 - 25X, Winners : 965
3 May 2021 4:11:4 - 50X, Winners : 678
7 May 2021 17:22:51 - 25X, Winners : 1349
8 May 2021 12:20:53 - 25X, Winners : 749
9 May 2021 5:8:34 - 25X, Winners : 1223
9 May 2021 9:38:31 - 25X, Winners : 857
9 May 2021 18:7:36 - 25X, Winners : 1009
10 May 2021 17:22:2 - 25X, Winners : 1478
10 May 2021 19:28:16 - 25X, Winners : 1575
11 May 2021 10:47:38 - 50X, Winners : 893
11 May 2021 13:22:38 - 50X, Winners : 895
12 May 2021 3:29:41 - 50X, Winners : 1474
13 May 2021 4:55:57 - 25X, Winners : 1749
14 May 2021 14:33:16 - 25X, Winners : 1326
15 May 2021 5:18:32 - 50X, Winners : 783
15 May 2021 23:36:5 - 25X, Winners : 2254
16 May 2021 18:59:12 - 25X, Winners : 1646
17 May 2021 13:30:42 - 50X, Winners : 1167Number 5
23 Apr 2021 12:19:45 - 25X, Winners : 535
25 Apr 2021 7:49:12 - 25X, Winners : 480
5 May 2021 20:50:33 - 25X, Winners : 1827
13 May 2021 21:7:41 - 25X, Winners : 1386Number 10
28 Apr 2021 10:18:23 - 25X, Winners : 736Cash Hunt
6 May 2021 0:9:13 - 50X, Winners : 6132
7 May 2021 23:46:0 - 25X, Winners : 3417
12 May 2021 5:47:53 - 50X, Winners : 1804
16 May 2021 18:47:39 - 50X, Winners : 3342Pachinco
22 Apr 2021 6:45:53 - 25X, Winners : 1066
9 May 2021 20:45:17 - 25X, Winners : 2707Coin Flip
8 May 2021 16:55:36 - 50X, Winners : 2702
16 May 2021 0:18:49 - 50X, Winners : 4083
16 May 2021 20:12:28 - 25X, Winners : 2367Crazy Time
25 Apr 2021 11:50:48 - 25X, Winners : 1017
9 May 2021 5:31:32 - 50X, Winners : 2897
9 May 2021 8:29:11 - 25X, Winners : 2275
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2 hours ago, dirtystack said:
You would need to gather the complete history. Not just have it resonate with you when you notice it is over 300 spins at any given time. You need the complete history that shows every chain of 300 + spins as a separate event and get rid of the possibility that you are noticing it when it is 300 spins, then looking at it an hour later and noticing it is 360 spins - its still the same unbroken run, 1 of the on average 33 runs of 300+ you would expect in a year. You need to have data backing up that it is happening more often then it should, rather then just thinking it is happening more then it should based on what you are noticing.
Yes, that is true. I might try to dig that information from somewhere at some point.
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1 hour ago, vanHooff said:
The distribution of Crazytime landing would follow a Binomial distribution (wiki link)
In one of the above posts of @Stevej he claims that from empirical evidence of Tracksino he does not dispute the 1/54 chance of CT landing,
but claims that the CT landings are clumped. If the data of when the CT have landed are available but I doubt that they are,
the distribution could easily be analyzed in Excel or other tool.Yes, exactly, that is what my empirical experiment was about. Just to clarify, my empirical test tells that it's 1/54 chance in a long run, but the probability varies constantly.
Let's say I run this test ten times, so it's 1000 million spins, and I never get maximum number higher than 52. What if that number is like 100 or 150, so much higher on a real life casino game? That specific number represents the times when CT bonuses distance is over 300 spins from the previous one in a one year period of time. Do you think that by doing that empirical test gives not close enough result to the real life casino game?
In your opinion what would be the most precise way to calculate the scenario I pointed out? I'm not asking this to argue that you're wrong. I'm really curious to know how you would solve this.
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13 minutes ago, dirtystack said:
So find out the absolute amount of Crazytimes there have been in that period and see if it fits within the average.
From I can see it means, on average 1 in 40 Crazytimes will come 300 or more spins after the previous one.
Do you agree with that?
Don't get hurted by my comment. I don't mean this bad, but I think you don't understand and trying to take this into another direction.
Of course the average amount appearance of CT is absolutely correct. I'm not interested that at all. They will make sure CT will appear right amounts in longer periods of time (it is 1/54 = 1.85%) and you can see those stats already on tracksino for example. It's 1.85% already in 3 months of time. That's fine.
I'm counting the scenarious when there are huge caps between those bonuses (over 300 spins between the CT bonuses): read how volatile the appearance of crazy time bonus is. My calculations show that it's more volatile than it should be. Why do they make it more volatile? Because it's more profitable, more addictive, people will do more deposits, they stay in the game waiting for that bonus.
Then later on of course it will appear then i.e. 5 times in a shorter period of time to keep the 1.85% correct in a long run.
My math is based on that fact that you have 54 numbers (54 places in the wheel) and if you keep rolling it every day all the time, you get certain volatiliness of the numbers. If it's an analog wheel and you don't aim to hit certain areas (read: don't rig it), it's the same as I got in 100 million spins.
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5 minutes ago, dirtystack said:
Oh you still mean over one year.
Ask Evolution for the total amount of spins done since release.
Ask them for the number of each bonus round since release.
So far about 400k spins. They run 40-42k spins per month. I see these stats.
Crazy Time was released June 10th 2020 so been running 10,5 months.
So average in my calculations for 10 months would be LESS than 33.3.
Got it?
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I made one more simulation. I ran 100 million spins of Crazy Time. If anyone interested in the code, let me know.
100 millions spins means 200 years of Crazy Time spins. 42000 spins per month * 12 is about 500k spins per year.
How many times in one year happens a scenario that two CT bonuses "distance" gets over 300 spins (ct hits, then it's at least 300 spins before the next ct bonus hits):
Based on 100 million spins (200 years)
average is: 33.3
maximum: 50 (it means that some year that scenario happens 50 times)
minimun: 18 (some year that scenario happens only 18 times)
Question is how many times this scenario has happened already this 10 months of Crazy Time gameplay (not even one year yet)? I see it constantly happening. 10 times per month would mean already 100 times so far.
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@dirtystack With small sample sizes? Lol! Well it’s better than your 4 screenshots of 400 spins of crazy time that you’re reading wrong.
I have no idea how you calculate your results in that app, but from your screenshots there are 180 spins between ct’s in those pictures. In one screenshot there are only HUNDRED spins. So that means all of your results you sent are wrong. You read it wrong, again. You praised your IQ earlier, but you can’t count to one hundred?
And as you said, we want better spread of results, I made this app that runs EXACTLY the same thing that you can maybe read correctly. Run this 10 times and you get 4 millions spins. Run it hundred times you get 40 millions spins. That’s enough for every slot.
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Yep. The scam continues running 24/7.
At least I won't put my money on there anymore.
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@dirtystack Okey nice. Put some lottery on...
I actually ran few rng’s today. Crazy Time has been spinning about 400k spins so far like someone mentioned. Over 300 spins between CTs happen approximately 30 times in those spins. There usually one-two over 400, and might get one over 500 but it’s really rare. Over 500 doesn’t happen every year.
Try it here. Click run on the upper left corner. Console on the right bottom corner shows the spin counts that go over 300 (you have to open the console to see the results). It's set for 400k wheel spins.
So with one click you simulate 400k spins (10-11months of the game play).
https://jsfiddle.net/hocw4x16/
Currently I'm watching the streamer playing on Crazy Time. It has again 244 spins between ct bonuses. Let's see where it goes. I don't still think it's an analog wheel.
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1 hour ago, jahoo said:
It,'s just another conspiracy that doesnt make sense.
To many people would have to be involved and to many multibillion companies will fail if just one of those people talked.
Think about Putin's palace. Many many years they built a fucking massive palace somewhere and it was kept quiet from the rest of the world until one guy revealed it. How is it possible?
I've said this before but I think they're not doing anything illegal, but the game is rigged in terms that the wheel is not working as people expects. It's not freely spinning wheel. Gambling laws allow to create these kind of games. If they could prove that I'm wrong, that would be fine as well, and I might consider playing these games again. But I'm sure they won't.
Until that I can simulate i.e. millions of spins with a little javascript code like this one I made http://crazyrng.infinityfreeapp.com/ and trust these results.
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Again this @dirtystack idiot joining here to spam without any real clever comments.
I think it's quite interesting topic, and most of us are probably the A-class customers for casinos. I'd like to hear some comments from @Evolution Gaming Official. They haven't commented anything here. Could they tell more details about these wheel games, how they work etc? When is the open doors -day in Latvian studio?
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13 minutes ago, thefan said:
I believe you are wrong. It makes no sense for them to cheat in this game. However i must say that a game like that is meant to be really volatile. It will have huge losing and winning streaks, that is also why it is so addictive to most people. You will never know when you hit the bonus round and if it is going to pay 2x or 20000x . The payout percentage of the game is 95.95%% so the house wins in the long run always, so no point in turning the odds more in their favour. The bonus rounds are predetermined to a degree.
Evolutiong gets their revenus from casinos that run their games, the revenue is not directly from the players that lose in their games.
People often don't realise that rigging the game has many benefits. The reason is not that they would win anyway so no sense for rigging. The real reasons are:
1) Making people to deposit and play more money
2) Making people more addictive in the game
3) Make people think that the bonus / big win must hit soon
They can also multiply their winnings if they avoid certain situations like paying big wins when 9000 players actively playing the game. But of course they are not stupid and give bigger hits now and then when there's more people around.
It's not analog wheel they can control the winning ratio/rtp's if they decide.
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I'm writing this topic mostly for myself to avoid these games. It would be nice to hear your thoughts as well.
I love stats. You can find the stats of Evolution's wheel games at https://CasinoScores.com However it doesn't show all the stats and doesn't really tell everything.
Like yesterday there was 57 spins without a bonus in Crazy Time. Chance of hitting a bonus in this game is 1/6. So calculating the odds of not getting bonus on 57 spins is 5/6^57 = 1/32572. In this game I see 40-50 spins without a bonus all the time. In my opinion they do this to maximize to collect the money to the house. They've changed to be more volatile as it would in real life. In other words, it's controlled.
I made a little rng simulator to demonstrate visually how difficult that scenario is. Refreshing page simulates new 100 spins (10 per colums, 10 per rows). The website only simulates the results in "the analog wheel". Of course digital rng is different than a real wheel, but theoretically it shouldn't be that different.
http://crazyrng.infinityfreeapp.com
I like the concept of the game but it's not fair for the players. Same things happens in all of their wheel games. @Evolution Gaming Official Could they finally reveal everybody how it really works?
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Now it is a right moment to pull the break and quit this forever.
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16 minutes ago, Solutionnn said:
Haven't read this whole thread but I just wanna say that the reason everyone has a unique "UserID" on certain providers is so that casinos could track and look through gamerounds of players easier. For example if a player has won really big the casino would often want to look through the gamerounds to see that the player didnt abuse a slot or found some sort of glitch/hack. Also it helps for when a player has a problem with a lost bonus/spin etc.
Not really gonna go deeper into this but from my point of view you already decided to yourself that everything is rigged etc. when its not. I worked in this industry and have seen everything from behind the scenes and I have never seen anything dodgy lol.
Also most of the streamers that I looked through backdoors from my years in this industry was down really bad so I heavily doubt that anyone got "rigged rtp" if so it dosent seem to work at all considering 1 streamer I looked through was down insane amounts even when he played daily with dep. bonuses and cashbacks.
That is quite good safe answer and I’ve heard that million times. There’s always somebody in the conversation who’ve ”worked in this industry.” But I believe you that you’ve worked in this business. Hopefully it opened your eyes.
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I think gambling is fun, but fun comes from that feeling of rush and addrenaline. It easily changes to something else than fun, unfortunately, so combining words gambling and fun is actually misleading and harmful.
And everybody’s chasing the big hits for sure. Casinos do anything (I mean anything) to make you think that you’ll get the big hit.
About the RTP’s. Even the fact when somebody proved that some casinos use different rtp’s in demo & real money games (post on this forum) tells that casinos do tweak rtp’s. If they can do that why would you think they didn’t tweak it up to certain players? I mean come on. They don’t give a shit.
Another Crazy Time Topic
in Casinos & Sports
Posted
Yes.
Just for fun, I created a bot few months ago that's collecting stats of that game. Of course you'll get data from Tracksino etc as well. I've tracked now about 120k spins.
Last weeks the trend in that game has been that 99% of the time it "pays nothing" and once/twice in a week they give 25x CT bonus, and maybe 20x Cash Hunt bonus. If you don't believe me, check it yourself. All the data is there. If you're lucky, enjoy, but like you said the odds for winning is almost zero. I also believe that they're avoiding giving winnings for big betting players. Never play it with high bets. You'll think you win big, you won't.
Btw, I just checked and it just paid 25x CT bonus for this week few minutes ago...
I quote somebody from another thread. "Evolution Gaming is the biggest scam of this century".