This is my goodbye

[Jadnici]

Just had a session where I went from 25$ to 1250$ lost it all. 

I got tilted because of Crazy time with obvious brake being used and not having a single bonus win with over 10x and bonuses  were rare for like 1 hour.

It s the end of year and what a better time to quit with this nonsense that was introduced to me by @Slotspinner and @LetsGiveItASpin via youtube videos. 

I am actualy happy that I lost today. 

What I am unhappy and furious about is denial by streamers that evo uses magnets on roullete and wheels that have flapers. If you actualy use 10% of your brain u would know that wheel controlled by machine is highscholl level of enginering.

If u are willing to deny that then my respect for u is 0.

Il be open for discusion on this topic until 31.12.2021. then I will delete it with my account and unsub from every casino content u provide and possibly report it if it pops on yt from time to time.

And let me tell u this not another I will quit story because now i have same filling that i had when i had decided to stop smoking what i dont do for 4 years now.

 

[teckiwi]

Sites have no reason to rig games that are already in their favour but ok..

[Daz120388]

Why didnt you set a bottom limit and stick to it? 

Gambling is gambling sometimes you will win sometimes you will lose 

End of the day only you can decide when to cash out.

[joshnadin]

As much as I always feel for people who are affected by gambling issues, this seems like you've just had a negative experience, spat your dummy out, and want to blame everything and everyone else for your actions.

No one has forced you to deposit and play. Especially if you have the belief that the games you're playing are controlled and manipulated and you still play them with that said belief, it just reinforces that what you're saying are complete paranoid delusions.
We've been down the rabbit hole time and time again on this forum why any provider doesn't need to 'rig' their games, and why it would be more detrimental that beneficial to them.

Getting salty about it and blaming content creators for what you have chosen to do as a responsible adult, and then going to the extent of saying you're going to report their content is a shitty move. But, whatever makes you feel better.

If it has got to the point where you're feeling the way you are, and it's affecting to this extent, you need to self exclude from all casino's you are registered at, and take advantage of a national self exclusion scheme if your country has one in place.
I hope your decision to quit is beneficial to you, and this experience is your last negative one when it comes to gambling. But, I also think you need to start taking some accountability mate.

Edited 22 December, 2021 by joshnadin

[Jadnici]

2 hours ago, joshnadin said:

As much as I always feel for people who are affected by gambling issues, this seems like you've just had a negative experience, spat your dummy out, and want to blame everything and everyone else for your actions.

No one has forced you to deposit and play. Especially if you have the belief that the games you're playing are controlled and manipulated and you still play them with that said belief, it just reinforces that what you're saying are complete paranoid delusions.
We've been down the rabbit hole time and time again on this forum why any provider doesn't need to 'rig' their games, and why it would be more detrimental that beneficial to them.

Getting salty about it and blaming content creators for what you have chosen to do as a responsible adult, and then going to the extent of saying you're going to report their content is a shitty move. But, whatever makes you feel better.

If it has got to the point where you're feeling the way you are, and it's affecting to this extent, you need to self exclude from all casino's you are registered at, and take advantage of a national self exclusion scheme if your country has one in place.
I hope your decision to quit is beneficial to you, and this experience is your last negative one when it comes to gambling. But, I also think you need to start taking some accountability mate.

See this 

 

 

[joshnadin]

4 hours ago, Jadnici said:

See this 

Are you really quoting a video that’s a restoration of a 1920’s roulette table that was used in some back room gambling den in the U.S. as some kind of validation for your previous comments?

Come on man.

An ancient dodgy roulette table that was used in an era where gambling wasn’t even legal, and definitely not regulated, is a whole different story than saying regulated and licensed providers manipulate results.

[Jadnici]

39 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

Are you really quoting a video that’s a restoration of a 1920’s roulette table that was used in some back room gambling den in the U.S. as some kind of validation for your previous comments?

Come on man.

An ancient dodgy roulette table that was used in an era where gambling wasn’t even legal, and definitely not regulated, is a whole different story than saying regulated and licensed providers manipulate results.

 

[joshnadin]

These exact two videos have already been discussed, at length, in this thread.

A video of a random event that is highly unlikely doesn't mean something is 'rigged'. If you do anything over and over again enough times, you are going to encounter some strange results. I would be more inclined to suspect something was off if things like this didn't happen from time to time.

At least the 1920's mob owned roulette table video was kind of interesting to watch, even if it doesn't support your delusions.

[damnyouwagering]

And the earth is flat amirite?

 

[Jay Walsh]

I defiantly agree with the magnets on lightening roulette is the most dodgiest spin, how the ball moves ain’t random, which streamers agree with. But you can’t blame let’s give it a spin for losing , yeah there jobs are to promote the games but they always say use deposit limits and what you can afford. If you believe there in on it just follow what they do when they play it even a lower stake if you believe it then you’ll win ?

[BludMoon]

I didnt even realise this was up for debate....

Crazy Time has a RTP%

Logically to me, they have no option but to manipulate the wheel.

It's extremely clear that dealers spinning the wheel have to watch a TV screen telling them how hard to spin and when to release. I fully expect that the wheel is rigged to a computer and whoever controlling it can manipulate where it lands 'somewhat'.

The bonus games are clearly rigged, like slots are rigged, rigged to match RTP% of the game.

As a gambler, I understand and expect this - and for this reason, i rarely play those types of games, because it doesn't feel 100% right.
Having said that, I'm certainly not gonna complain about it when i lose. I'm responsible for my own gambling activity.

IMO if you're getting pissed off about such things then it means you're likely playing with money that you cant afford to lose, so quitting is definitely a good idea.

A bit of clarity from the streamers in response to this thread indeed would be some nice insight, on their thoughts/opinions.

If they (streamers) have been asked not to mention this manipulation then it's probably more to do with the fact that most gamblers who watch their streams, probably  wouldn't understand the logistics behind it, and instead just complain about it being 'rigged'.

These businesses cannot operate on random outcomes - if the games were purely random, they would eventually go out of business at some point.. think about it..

All gambling is rigged, its called RTP% .


 

[Davidr1978]

The Crazytime wheel has no brakes, magnets, motors or any other hardware to rig it. However the multiplier wheel is controlled by very shady Rng algorithms, just like every slot is. This is to control long term profit and ensure huge wins don't happen one after the other rather than to rely on the maths as that possibly can bankrupt many casinos in 1 day.

Rng's cannot produce random numbers, fact.

When you think about it the most simple way to produce a fair unpredictable result on a slot for example is to cycle through every possibility outcome at lightspeed and the timing of the player pressing spin would determine the outcome. No Rng or algorithms required so why do they use them if its not for control over the games?

I'd love to know exactly what those algorithms contain but im sure only a select few are privy to info like that. 

 

 

[joshnadin]

On 26/12/2021 at 12:50, BludMoon said:

Logically to me, they have no option but to manipulate the wheel.

You don't understand RTP if you think results have to be manipulated to be able to mathematically predict what the house edge of a game will be over it's lifetime.

You can mathematically predict the outcome of any random event. If you understand the maths and want to make some money by letting people bet on that event, add a little percentage for yourself, and sit and watch the money roll in. That's the entire business strategy of casinos since they've existed. You as the house or casino don't care what happens on a spin-by-spin basis, because you know over the long term, you are going to profit on the game.

On 26/12/2021 at 12:50, BludMoon said:

It's extremely clear that dealers spinning the wheel have to watch a TV screen telling them how hard to spin and when to release. I fully expect that the wheel is rigged to a computer and whoever controlling it can manipulate where it lands 'somewhat'.

The human brain isn't sophisticated enough to be able to differentiate how hard you should spin a wheel to accurately generate a specific result. The flappers are changed regularly, also meaning how the wheel behaves changes on a regular basis, making it impossible to become 'skilled' enough to do this. Also, the absolute minute difference in force when spinning the wheel between what could be a 50x Crazy Time, or right next door a 1, is far, far too small to be able to be manipulated by a human.

But most importantly. They don't need to do this. As mentioned at the beginning, they don't care what the result is. They're already guaranteed to make money over the game's lifespan.

On 26/12/2021 at 12:50, BludMoon said:

These businesses cannot operate on random outcomes - if the games were purely random, they would eventually go out of business at some point.. think about it..

Entirely incorrect.

Again, see the first point I made.

Go and get a deck of cards and play a few million hands of Blackjack with perfect strategy and keep track of your win/loss. You'll see that the game is operating at the specific RTP that is expected.

Or, you could theoretically make your own wheel with the same variables as Crazy Time, and go and do a few million spins. Again, keep track of the profit/loss you would make as the house. You will see that you've made money and you would not 'go out of business'.

The maths is so simple. There is no need to 'think about it'.

[BludMoon]

I'm sorry you put so much effort into your response... I know several people who have worked in Evo Live Casino.

But hey, you seem to know more than me lol

The fact you said this >  "The human brain isn't sophisticated enough to be able to differentiate how hard you should spin a wheel" - I found hilarious. The fact you think that's what i meant, is mind-numbing...

Good day

[joshnadin]

1 hour ago, BludMoon said:

I know several people who have worked in Evo Live Casino.
But hey, you seem to know more than me lol

Me too! 🙂
If you can get any of them on record correcting me, I'll eat my words. Same applies if you can get any non-bias, credible evidence that says otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, BludMoon said:

The fact you said this >  "The human brain isn't sophisticated enough to be able to differentiate how hard you should spin a wheel" - I found hilarious. The fact you think that's what i meant, is mind-numbing...

Good day

If that is not what you meant when you stated the dealer purposely stops spinning at a certain point to generate a specific result, just what did you mean?

My version of mind numbing and yours appears to be entirely different.
The fact you have a genuine belief that the game could not be profitable or sustainable to the casino and operator without manipulation, and people need to 'think' about it, when anyone can take the simple maths and probability of how the game operates, write it down on a piece of paper, and see for themselves that it would be the polar opposite of what you believe, is mind numbing to me.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion and belief. I'll stick with the facts! 😉

Good day buddy.

[BludMoon]

What a 🤡. Why would you try to say I said something when i clearly didn't. Like I said, sorry if you did not/could not understand what I wrote. It's right there 😂 ^. Trolls get Blocked. Annoying AF.

 

[Jadnici]

4 hours ago, joshnadin said:

Me too! 🙂
If you can get any of them on record correcting me, I'll eat my words. Same applies if you can get any non-bias, credible evidence that says otherwise.

 

If that is not what you meant when you stated the dealer purposely stops spinning at a certain point to generate a specific result, just what did you mean?

My version of mind numbing and yours appears to be entirely different.
The fact you have a genuine belief that the game could not be profitable or sustainable to the casino and operator without manipulation, and people need to 'think' about it, when anyone can take the simple maths and probability of how the game operates, write it down on a piece of paper, and see for themselves that it would be the polar opposite of what you believe, is mind numbing to me.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion and belief. I'll stick with the facts! 😉

Good day buddy.

Main reason I mentioned Kim here is because once he said that he is not afraid of magnets on roullete but dealers that can hit specific section on live roulete. Now imagine guy that says that but it s not willing to think about wheels that are manipulated by machine.

[Davidr1978]

The player can't bet while the wheel is in motion as this would allow time to predict where it stops. Yet it's funny the multiplier wheel is allowed this time to make a prediction before it reveals the multiplier. Why does no one question this possible house control?

I don't play Crazytime myself, i just want answers to many things that my gut says is wrong as i don't have blind faith in crap that regulators etc preach.

Rtp maths may guarantee the house healthy long term profit but there is many reasons why they would want more control over everything.

Like i said earlier for games like Crazytime it's to ensure many huge wins don't happen consecutively etc. For slots the algorithms are likely designed to get everyone playing/depositing regularly based on credit checks etc.

Id love for someone to debunk my claims with solid proof.  

[Stevej]

I used to play this game with my friend. We wanted to have fun, drink few beers and play this game in the evenings, but we noticed that it never give proper wins those "rush hours" when there are lots of players. We always lost our money, I mean always. That was fucking ridiculous and eventually killed all the excitement. Then I got tilted with Evo games and I decided that I quit. I've saved a lots of money. Their games get shittier day by day. They are the most brutal money collecting machines that mankind has built.

I was so interested in these games so I programmed a bot that collects data of Crazy Time. It's running 24/7. At the moment RTP of individual bonus games are CH: 91.2, Pachinco: 81.5, CF: 93.7, CT: 94. As you can see, Pachinco RTP is horrible. It's been between 81-82 now about one year and it never varies at all. All the RTPs stays the same all the time. That already tell that this game is controlled. My bot also shows that there are clear hot and cold streaks and it always repeats the same bonus symbols. At some point I will release it and I hope it helps people to quit these games, because you just can't win. Their games are so fucking greedy and it totally includes the most modern casino engineering. I'm sure it spots the high-bet players and pay big for those who are willing to play a lots of money. You can't go there with 100 dollars and win 100k. It won't let it happen.

Btw I just checked tracksino.com results. Look at how the wheel avoids certain bonuses at certain times. You can calculate the odds for this scenario and like this one (wheel avoiding CT and Pachinco) happens quite often. Only after the amount of players drop under 5k, it starts giving these bonuses again. 

It is rigged because it has RTP and they wanna keep it constant also in short-term. It's dodgy as fuck. Never play it.

Edit: Tracksino.com atm: 340 spins from Crazy Time bonus. The odds for that is already 0,17%. It does it almost every day... Then it starts giving it again actively after players drops to keep the odds in a right proportion.

 

Edited 28 December, 2021 by Stevej

[joshnadin]

45 minutes ago, BludMoon said:

Why would you try to say I said something when i clearly didn't.

On 26/12/2021 at 12:50, BludMoon said:

It's extremely clear that dealers spinning the wheel have to watch a TV screen telling them how hard to spin and when to release.

Lol, okay then pal.. 👀 👍
It may be every so slightly differently worded. But, the principal of what you said remains the same.

 

3 minutes ago, Jadnici said:

Main reason I mentioned Kim here is because once he said that he is not afraid of magnets on roullete but dealers that can hit specific section on live roulete. Now imagine guy that says that but it s not willing to think about wheels that are manipulated by machine.

Roulette is entirely different. There are sections of the wheel. On crazy time, the bonus' are distributed way differently.
But, dealers can't hit a certain section. No matter what rumours you may hear. Take it from someone who's dealt hundreds of thousands of spins of roulette.
If we could, I would have been a millionaire by colluding with my friends a long time ago.

I never said I wasn't willing to think about it. But, after a few seconds, logic takes precedent.

 

5 minutes ago, Davidr1978 said:

Rtp maths may guarantee the house healthy long term profit but there is many reasons why they would want more control over everything.

Like what? The same maths that has been making them consistent profit for decades is no longer good enough? What more control do you need? And, for what reason?

 

6 minutes ago, Davidr1978 said:

Like i said earlier for games like Crazytime it's to ensure many huge wins don't happen consecutively etc. For slots the algorithms are likely designed to get everyone playing/depositing regularly based on credit checks etc.

Id love for someone to debunk my claims with solid proof.  

What? You're seriously sitting there and saying that casinos run credit checks on players and manipulate that players specific players game outcomes accordingly? Why? What benefit would it give them?

Now, it really is time to take off the tin foil hat. First of all, you can see any company who has looked up your credit report yourself. Casinos can look up your credit report for AML purposes to verify your identity, but legally have no access to the section of your credit report that shows your 'score' or any of your financial accounts. So would have no clue of your financial situation based from it.

Besides the fact that it is 110% illegal and would be so, so easy to prove they are doing this.

 

25 minutes ago, Davidr1978 said:

The player can't bet while the wheel is in motion as this would allow time to predict where it stops. Yet it's funny the multiplier wheel is allowed this time to make a prediction before it reveals the multiplier. Why does no one question this possible house control?

The exact same reason why the dealers don't let you bet on a roulette wheel past a certain point. It would give an unfair advantage. If the multiplier wheel was not given time, then players would just bet on whatever section the multiplier lands on, again giving them a massive advantage.

 

10 minutes ago, Stevej said:

Btw I just checked tracksino.com results. Look at how the wheel avoids certain bonuses at certain times. You can calculate the odds for this scenario and like this one (wheel avoiding CT and Pachinco) happens quite often. Only after the amount of players drop under 5k, it starts giving these bonuses again. 

Here we go 🙄 Steve enters the the thread with the same delusions.

You have no basis for what you're saying. Apart from your very bias point of view as you self proclaimed that you're tilted with Evo, can you show us all some data or proof that 'only after players drop under 5k it starts giving bonus again?' 🤦‍♂️

You can even feel free to use the data from the 'bot you created', which appears to do nothing differently than what CasinoScores or Tracksino already does anyway.

[Stevej]

12 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

Here we go 🙄 Steve enters the the thread with the same delusions.

You have no basis for what you're saying. Apart from your very bias point of view as you self proclaimed that you're tilted with Evo, can you show us all some data or proof that 'only after players drop under 5k it starts giving bonus again?' 🤦‍♂️

You can even feel free to use the data from the 'bot you created', which appears to do nothing differently than what CasinoScores or Tracksino already does anyway.

Hi Josh! Hopefully all good and you got christmas presents.

Actually the bot gives you more data than Tracksino / Casinoscores. Individual RTPs, RTPs of all collected spins, Crazy Time bonus blue/yellow/green distribution, cold and hot streaks, mobile notifications of big wins and best strategy calculator and what to bet suggestions. It's already running online, but since it's my hobby project I haven't had time to finish it yet. Maybe soon!

Edit: Epiiic. 360 from CT bonus. The odds 0,11%. The bonus has vanished from the wheel. Follow the game and look how it avoids it.

Edited 28 December, 2021 by Stevej

[joshnadin]

5 minutes ago, Stevej said:

Actually the bot gives you more data than Tracksino / Casinoscores. Individual RTPs, RTPs of all collected spins, Crazy Time bonus blue/yellow/green distribution, cold and hot streaks, mobile notifications of big wins and best strategy calculator and what to bet suggestions. It's already running online, but since it's my hobby project I haven't had time to finish it yet. Maybe soon!

On a side note, that is interesting. If it works well, you could easily monetize that baby, or sell it to an existing casino tracker website. Kudos!

 

6 minutes ago, Stevej said:

Hi Josh! Hopefully all good and you got christmas presents.

Santa forgot about me again Stevie! Maybe next year! 🎅
I hope he left you something nice under the tree.

 

7 minutes ago, Stevej said:

Edit: Epiiic. 360 from CT bonus. The odds 0,11%. The bonus has vanished from the wheel. Follow the game and look how it avoids it.

That's just a cold streak though, it doesn't mean any foul play is at hand. We've been down this road haven't we!
Unlikely doesn't mean impossible, or that something is going on that shouldn't be.

Just like when CT has hit three times in a row. 64x64x64 is a one in 262,144 chance! Incredibly unlikely! Far more unlikely than 0.11%, at 0.0003814697265625%, if we're being precise.

[Stevej]

2 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

On a side note, that is interesting. If it works well, you could easily monetize that baby, or sell it to an existing casino tracker website. Kudos!

Hmm. I have to think about it. 😁 If you have any tips for that, dm me.

2 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

Santa forgot about me again Stevie! Maybe next year! 🎅
I hope he left you something nice under the tree.

 

That's just a cold streak though, it doesn't mean any foul play is at hand. We've been down this road haven't we!
Unlikely doesn't mean impossible, or that something is going on that shouldn't be.

Just like when CT has hit three times in a row. 64x64x64 is a one in 262,144 chance! Incredibly unlikely! Far more unlikely than 0.11%, at 0.0003814697265625%, if we're being precise.

Actually it's 54x54x54.

[joshnadin]

1 minute ago, Stevej said:

Actually it's 54x54x54.

It's getting late. My bad. 👀

54x54x54 is apparently a 1/157,464 chance. Or, 0.00063506579281614% - quite a difference! 😅

 

5 minutes ago, Stevej said:

Hmm. I have to think about it. 😁 If you have any tips for that, dm me.

I might know a guy, that knows a guy.. for a 5% stake, we can talk when we see what it looks like 😉

[Davidr1978]

@Joshnadin.  Maybe you should read my comment more carefully before replying. I never once stated that players should know the multiplier wheel outcome before placing their bets lol. My point is there is a certain amount of time the multiplier wheel gets after the host spins the wheel, enough for software to predict the outcome, this is bang out of order. The multiplier wheel result should be known the split second the host takes his hands off the wheel and not 3-5 secs after.