New German Regulations Are Stupid

[Asle Martinsen]

After reading the new German regulations, I'm starting to think the casinos will start operating towards Germany the same way they do to the Norwegian market.
I really don't see how anyone would want to operate with a German license if they can deliver their services without a license. It works fine for us Norwegians, with the exception of a couple of big banks not allowing transactions to skrill to be used for gambling (there's a block for such transfers).

The 1 euro max stake combined with 1 spin per 5 seconds is insane. This means if you were to take a 200 euro bonus (if this is still possible) with a 35x wagering, you need to wager 7000 euros with a max wagering of 12 euros per minute. The total amount of time it takes to wager will be 9 hours and 45 minutes (if you play 1 game for 10 hours straight). 
Add the fact that a bonus round takes time, the 1 minute cooldown between games, and that time period will go up drastically. If a bonus round adds 2 minutes and you get 5 per hour, that's another 10 minutes per hour. Over a 10 hour period that's 1 hour 40 minutes. If you change games after 50 or 100 spins it adds 1 minute per 4 or 8 minutes played. 
If we go with 50 spins between each time you change games, we're looking at about 2 hours and 30 minutes more. 

The math then looks like this: 9:45 + 2:30 + 1:40 = 13:55.
Basically this means that you need to play for 14 hours or more to clear a 200 euro bonus wager! 

This is just pure insanity, and unless Germany has some laws that allows them to block casinos from delivering services unlicensed, I think most casinos will either stop delivering to Germany, or they will just deliver without caring about a license (if possible). 

Take note you young ones, this is what socialism does to your freedom. You lose the right to choose for yourself what you want to spend your money on. Your freedom is being taken away from you slowly but surely. It's a true sign of a socialist system, implemented by a power hungry government. 

Think it's time to make a change on who you vote for if you're German lol. 

[Li_Shang]

I do not think they will allow bonuses? 

[Asle Martinsen]

12 hours ago, Li_Shang said:

I do not think they will allow bonuses? 

No idea mate. 

Just got an email from Casumo:

German Market Update

We would like to remind you that, with the current and ongoing changes to the German gambling market, adaptations have been made to our offering.

We have removed all live casino games, table games and progressive jackpots from Casumo.com and it is critical that any of your marketing creatives and messages promoting such games are to be removed accordingly.

Thank you for your cooperation! We will be in touch should there be any further updates.

As always, if you have any questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact your account manager or our support email at affiliates@casumo.com.

 

Looks like Germans can't play live casino games or even progressive jackpot games anymore! This is insane man

[Li_Shang]

Okay. Well, sweden doesnt have that harsh rules, but what we have is 500€ max deposit per week, 3 sec rule between spins and they removed every bonus (lowering welcome bonuses to like 10€)

[Asle Martinsen]

Just now, Li_Shang said:

Okay. Well, sweden doesnt have that harsh rules, but what we have is 500€ max deposit per week, 3 sec rule between rules and they removed every bonus (lowering welcome bonuses to like 10€)

Yeah, I think that's counterproductive in the long run. Players will run to unlicensed casinos. 

[Li_Shang]

1 minute ago, Asle Martinsen said:

Yeah, I think that's counterproductive in the long run. Players will run to unlicensed casinos. 

Yes. Exactly what i think. If they think this is the way to stop problem gamblers they are just so wrong. These rules are only frustrating as hell and will end up players going to casinos without license and having bigger problems instead.. 

[Asle Martinsen]

Just now, Li_Shang said:

Yes. Exactly what i think. If they think this is the way to stop problem gamblers they are just so wrong. These rules are only frustrating as hell and will end up players going to casinos without license and having bigger problems instead.. 

Spot on mate. I think this will be a rising trend in Germany too. It's incredibly naive to think they can stop people from doing what they want to do. 

As long as you don't harm others, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to choose what you do. Freedom of choice is one of the most important things we have in western society. 

[Li_Shang]

1 minute ago, Asle Martinsen said:

Spot on mate. I think this will be a rising trend in Germany too. It's incredibly naive to think they can stop people from doing what they want to do. 

As long as you don't harm others, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to choose what you do. Freedom of choice is one of the most important things we have in western society. 

Yeah exactly. Just promote gamban etc, give warning signs, update on net profit / loss etc. No problem.  But let the player decide what stakes and how fast he wants to play. Not fair to punish all the players just cause a bunch has a problem. 

[Asle Martinsen]

7 minutes ago, Li_Shang said:

Yeah exactly. Just promote gamban etc, give warning signs, update on net profit / loss etc. No problem.  But let the player decide what stakes and how fast he wants to play. Not fair to punish all the players just cause a bunch has a problem. 

Exactly. Now, imagine someone who makes a million a month, and they'll be restricted to playing for 1000 euros a month, compared to someone who makes 2000 euros a month. It literally makes zero sense to have rules like this. 

[leol1912]

@Asle Martinsen I actually think these rules are not too bad. The MGA license is really bad when it comes to protecting problematic gambling. The 1000 Euro rule is very good for the average player & players that like to bet more can make a request to the casino. The casino then has to check that the player can afford it (by bank statement or similar). The rules might not be perfect but just ignoring that a lot of people have a gambling issue is just stupid & I like that the german regulators actually want to try protecting people. But balancing protection & freedom is not an easy task.

What I dont like is that live games & Jackpots are blocked, doesnt make sense to me. And they are also missing out on the best feature for players with gambling issues - a global self-exclusion system. In my opinion, this is the easiest and most effective feature against compulsive gambling.

[trustedslotsnet]

 

It was only a matter of time before the discussion about the new regulations in Germany began. I would like to enlighten you a little more about the current status, as we are currently dealing with the topic massively with our lawyers.

 

1. Nothing at all has yet been decided or in force by the government. therefore there are still a lot of casinos that do not implement the transition regulations at all. Because nothing else is what was introduced at some casinos on October 13th, 2020. On the part of the committee in Germany, the casinos that do this have been promised an advantage in licensing from July 2021. This is against the law. A transitional regulation that is presented by the Commission as voluntary must not offer any advantage for those who use it.

 

2. The new regulations, if they come at all, which is currently more than questionable, are not a great danger for the casinos. These could continue to play on the German market without a German license with the good EU license from Malta. Why? Quite simply, there is a law in the EU that regulates free trade and free services between EU countries. This AEUV states that a state belonging to the EU may not restrict services and trade between EU countries unless they are systemically relevant or are offered by the country itself. Both is not the case. Gambling is not systemically relevant in Germany and any tax revenue may only be added to the culture. Also, no online casinos from Germany are hosted or offered. This would not be lucrative at all because of the high taxes. Thus, there is a clear EU law violation that can be challenged with a high chance of success before the European Court of Justice. We are currently working with our lawyers on a position paper to support the casinos in their fight. Anyone who would like to support us is welcome to get in touch.

 

Now the question arises, why are the casinos not complaining yet? and why are some even introducing these transitional rules?

 

The answer is pretty simple. Since the law has not yet been finally passed or even in force, there is still nothing against which one can complain. The casinos that introduce the transitional rules do so out of uncertainty and certainly also because they were surprised. The casinos were only informed of the upcoming rules 1 - 2 weeks before they came into force and the many different ways of implementing them clearly show that many do not even know what exactly they should implement.

 

We are currently talking to various online casinos about the current situation on a daily basis and are feeling a massive amount of uncertainty. Actually, everyone wants proper regulation, but this must be fair, transparent, well thought out and communicated in good time. We have also spoken to some casinos that do not change anything for the time being and that is a good thing. It is important that nobody panics and waits for the final decision. If it is then decided which regulations will ultimately come, you can check them again for their legal security and, if necessary, take legal action before the European Court of Justice. Because one thing is fact, as the rules are currently planned, they are not quite compatible with the EU and can be massively challenged.

 

I hope these explanations help you a little further. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us. Please understand, however, that an answer may take some time, as we are currently very busy.

 

[explorer]

I don't think there's anything wrong in principle with deposit limits, max bet per spin, or disallowing bonus buys, but things like 1 spin per 5(!) seconds, no live casino, and no jackpot games make no sense. As long as they're licensed games, there's no fundamental difference between regular slot and live casino/jackpot slot gambling, and 5 seconds per spin is just going to turn people off and send them to unlicensed casinos to be potentially defrauded.

I think rules like disallowing withdrawal cancellations, limiting the number of deposits you can make per week (many people rack up big losses one €100 deposit at a time), disabling quick spins, and only allowing one game to be played at a time could at least reduce the financial and psychological harm on some people, while not inconveniencing other players to the extent they run away to unlicensed casinos or worse.

[dkmikes]

I dont think those kind of rules help in any way what so ever, in Denmark we got 3 second per spin rule and cant use quick spin or turbo, and i find that really annoying but we are still allowed to buy bonuses at max buy price, so cant see the point of any 3 second rules, and to say it helps people who might have a gambling problem it really wont, it might make it alot worse though, you can just open up more slots at a time or more casinos at a time to make up for any stupid 3 or 5 second rule, and that will be a higher risk then allowing us to play like adults and make our own decision.

I for one have made accounts now in casinos without license where i can play like an adult and make my own decision on how i want to play and what games i want to play on, like in Denmark dreamcatcher, monopoly live, crazy time are all blocked, allways wondered what the reason behind it is, since we can play lightning roulette and such.

A gambler will find a way to do what they want to do and its not hard but going to those casinos with no license carrys risk of running into scam casinos and might put people in a worse spot then any of the weird rules are supposed to help with.

 

@trustedslotsnet

Nothing has ever been changed for people in other countries that has been slapped with stupid rules, Denmark has had wierd rules for a looong time and Sweden has allmost as bad rules as Germany is about to get, i wish they would start making rules that makes more sense then just having people whos never been on a casino set the rules.

The casinos are allready going to start to pull out and stop offering there services to alot of germans, same as it has happened in other places like UK, DK, SE and soon DE as well 

[trustedslotsnet]

20 minutes ago, dkmikes said:

 

@trustedslotsnet

Nothing has ever been changed for people in other countries that has been slapped with stupid rules, Denmark has had wierd rules for a looong time and Sweden has allmost as bad rules as Germany is about to get, i wish they would start making rules that makes more sense then just having people whos never been on a casino set the rules.

The casinos are allready going to start to pull out and stop offering there services to alot of germans, same as it has happened in other places like UK, DK, SE and soon DE as well 

It's different in Germany. There are so many formal errors in the planned regulations that they would never have
existed before the European Court of Justice. Furthermore, the Basic Law is violated in Germany. We have now
started to handle the German case through our lawyers. It is not ruled out that, based on the result, we will
then address further countries. Unfortunately, all of this takes some time.

 

Forresten, med venlig hilsen til Danmark, har min familie et hus nær Henne Strand. Danmark er noget som mit andet hjem.

[Asle Martinsen]

On 20/10/2020 at 20:40, leol1912 said:

@Asle Martinsen I actually think these rules are not too bad. The MGA license is really bad when it comes to protecting problematic gambling. The 1000 Euro rule is very good for the average player & players that like to bet more can make a request to the casino. The casino then has to check that the player can afford it (by bank statement or similar). The rules might not be perfect but just ignoring that a lot of people have a gambling issue is just stupid & I like that the german regulators actually want to try protecting people. But balancing protection & freedom is not an easy task.

What I dont like is that live games & Jackpots are blocked, doesnt make sense to me. And they are also missing out on the best feature for players with gambling issues - a global self-exclusion system. In my opinion, this is the easiest and most effective feature against compulsive gambling.

How are you gonna play live games with 1 euro max stake?
I disagree with government preventing you from choosing what you do with your own money. That's what socialist dictatorships do. Rules like these are the beginning. If you look around, you'll find other laws and rules that restrict you from doing things that harm nobody but yourself as well. Then you'll notice there are rules like these that prevent you from getting ahead. And eventually you'll have no freedom left. 

One form of dictatorship is being in a prison cell, where you can see the bars and touch them. Another is being in a prison cell, but you can't see the bars, and you think you're free. 

[Grandsplint84]

Sad... My favourite game is no longer available "Gods of Storm"...

[NickG]

1 spin per 5 sec is dumb but all te rest are pro ideas. I'm all in favor for them. Remember that gambling per definition is a toxic activity that has a high risk of addiction. There are only few people who have the discipline to handle it. It's how our brain works and machinery works. Even the disciplined who gamble constantly will eventuelly succumb to the addiction and from there on out it's a road of depression.

[Orzabot]

The 5 Second rule does not make any sense to me. In Denmark we have three Second rule, just because of that rule i never play on danish license casinos, only on curacao license sites. I think the Max deposit rule is good, it is still a huge amount to deposit for most people.