The Reel Story
-
Posts
98 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by The Reel Story
-
-
3 hours ago, Nichio123 said:
Thanks for the reply. Understand what you are saying and makes more sense to me now. Effectively like a coin flip then on a larger scale and a with more variations. You flip a coin and get 5 heads in a row, the outcome of flip 6 is 50/50 and the previous 5 flips bare no relevance to flip 6. However over the course of 1mil spins you'd likely end up somewhat near the 500k/500k mark?
I'll check your video out now. Thanks again
Exactly right 🙂
-
Prove yourself right, you're the one making the accusation. Burden of proof lies with you.
-
You're part right and part wrong 😊 theoretical RTP is based on the mathematical model of the game. It's not a target and games are not 'compensated' (they don't fill up and pay out as people play them).
Other people's play (and even your own) has no impact on your future spins. Every spin is independent and random. It's the mathematical model that means, over time, it will naturally make money, but due to statistics.
Some months, games will make a loss because a high roller won big.
Video where I go in to more detail below:
-
What RTP is it? Cause the version I saw was around 92%. I just turned it off and never looked back. 92% isn't getting any of my money haha.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Modnationx said:
See this is just retarded shit, why do you attack people for not been able to write, it's people like you I wish i met irl, just to punch that little karen face of yours. Have a great day Regards 👊.
If you think that was 'attacking' then I think you may be snowflaking a little.
As for why, they're on a forum. The method of communication is writing. If you want people to understand what you're trying to say easily, then you need to be able to write. It's 2021, with spell and grammar checkers, I'm not sure anyone has an excuse for not being able to write.
I also appreciate English may not be peoples first languages, but all languages have grammar, all have largely the same formatting. All have paragraphs and line breaks and most have capital letters. I have no problem if someone writes in broken English due to being a second language, but writing in such a way that makes it, literally, difficult to read because there is zero effort put in to the basics of universal formatting, then I'm gonna ask that they do better.
-
On 03/06/2021 at 20:22, chainy said:
you say it is random how do you know how it is programmed people do not know what they are talking about , the slots do not work as every spin is random if the slot is set to not pay you will not hit if it is ready to pay you will win but the latest is very very rare to hit big.so for ex. i played the green knight when it was new i hit freespins it went up to 100x some weeks later completely stonedead try day after days still dead . no bonus and lowest possible multiplayer. so random never.its programmed how tom pay all calculated from providers experts psycological and mathemathicans all to earn so much money they can .they dont let anything go random never .they have programmed their profit and not let any big wins you hit around 10x to 100x to not hit payout balance in the casino.maybe they have some ip tracking in their servers to not pay big on some ip adresses ,who knows .but random it is not 100% sure about that.its the same old record when you play slot you can hit freespin on first spin or you can press the button till your balance is 0. many many times hit freespins on 1st spin is that random no it is not you open a cam e and it is ready to give a freespin or you open a slot and you will not see the freespin because the slot is set to give the freespin. so what do the rtp say ,the slot knows what to pay is that random?? not in my world .do they check statistics when the have so controlled slots ? why do the slot pay just that month to many players and just eat from every player month after...no one check that.
God this was hard to read. Please learn how to write. Grammar and punctuation are your friend.
Anyway, I know because I used to make these games for a living. All of the stuff you described is complex and unnecessary when a slot is already designed to a profitable RTP value and works perfectly well based on mathematics and statistics.
Just because something is random, doesn't mean it isn't controlled. That is what the rules are for (in this instance, the symbols, the payout values of those symbols etc.
As an example, lets say you and I play a game. I roll a dice. On a 5 or a 6, I pay you £1, on a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you pay me £1. You will win 1/3 of the time, I will win 2/3 of the time. Overall you will lose. Are you going to tell me the dice is rigged? No, you know you are losing because the rules are in my favour. That is how slots work.
As always the simple argument against rigging is that it isn't necessary. A lot of cost, risk and effort for very little reward.
-
These are the T&C's that I can see (may be different for your country).
QuoteWhen a bet abuses the betting system – regardless of which game it was placed on – it will not count towards a player’s wagering requirements. If the player placed single bets equal to or greater than €4 or €0,50 per line, or 15 percent of the bonus amount before the wagering requirements for the bonus have been met, we reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player’s withdrawal. In addition, if a player deposited with Skrill and placed single bets equal to or greater than €2,50 of the bonus amount before the wagering requirements for the bonus have been met, we reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player’s withdrawal. The foregoing shall also apply to any bonus buy features.
I assume therefore that your bonus limitation was 10% of the bonus amount. Your bonus amount was 50 EUR and so your max bet was 5 EUR. If this is the case, then placing 10 EUR bets breached the T&C and they are not obligated to pay you. I'm afraid there isn't really anything you can do in this case.
-
8 hours ago, Illbeoveryou said:
Thank you!! 🙏 I can now tell how much every spin in the bonus will pay before all the spins is played 😄
Another question:
If I play 5spins on £1 and get a bonus would the same bonus with same outcome would have come with a £10 bet?
Np 😊
If everything was identical except the stake, then yes, the bonus would have been the same.
Stake has no impact on the result.
-
21 minutes ago, The Macho Man said:
but technically aren't those 5 hidden rolls not random since all that matters here is a predetermined return outcome?
like lets say each dice roll is a multiplier, if its predetermined when you hit spin and lets say your win is 10x. wouldnt the rolls of 6, 1,1,1,1 be predetermined if thats how it played out and its not really random.
whereas with the BTG, if each spin is truly random you don't know your overall outcome yet until the last spin?
It's still random. Each of those dice is still random. Both methods are just as random as each other. It makes no difference.
As long as you place your bet before the dice are rolled, and get your payout after all the results of the dice are shown to you, it makes no difference whatsoever if those dice were rolled one by one or all 5 at the same time.
You may prefer it one way or the other, which is fine, but both methods are exactly as random as each other.
In your example, if each dice result was a multiplier win, then yes, the dice rolls would be like that. But the dice would not be rolled until after you clicked spin, and rolling them all together doesn't stop each dice from being random 😊
29 minutes ago, The Macho Man said:but technically aren't those 5 hidden rolls not random since all that matters here is a predetermined return outcome?
like lets say each dice roll is a multiplier, if its predetermined when you hit spin and lets say your win is 10x. wouldnt the rolls of 6, 1,1,1,1 be predetermined if thats how it played out and its not really random.
whereas with the BTG, if each spin is truly random you don't know your overall outcome yet until the last spin?
Oh, and it isn't a predetermined return outcome. The game doesn't say 'your win will be 100x,now let me work out a result that matches that'. It determines the Reel stops for each spin, and those reel stops determine your wins based on the symbols present.
No slot determines your payout value up front. The payout is always calculated based on the results of the reels and the wins you hit based on the symbols, features etc.
-
16 hours ago, Illbeoveryou said:
Thank you!! 🙂 Looking forward to it 🙂
Here you go!
-
1
-
-
5 minutes ago, The Macho Man said:
on a side note would you guys rather have predetermined bonuses or leave it up to RNG like BTG?
Part of me kind of prefers the predetermined bonuses, but at the same time it just feels like a 'rigged' way slot providers can control the RTP easier by giving a lot of crappy bonuses vs rare good ones. Whereas the random bonuses anything can happen, but at the same time most of those bonuses will probably be crap anyway if it truly is random and the bonus ends up being a slight 'edge' vs just base game spins.
You're misinterpreting 'pre-determined' here. The result is still random and is still determined by the RNG, but the whole bonus result is generated at the point you click the spin button, rather than spin by spin within the bonus. It makes no difference which way you do it in terms of the result and the RTP.
Think of it like this. If I roll a dice in front of you 5 times, you will see 5 random numbers one after the other. If I roll 5 dice behind a sheet, and then take away the sheet to show you all 5 at once, you will see 5 random numbers all at the same time. The end result is you still see 5 random numbers.
-
2
-
-
18 minutes ago, Illbeoveryou said:
Would you or somebody else be kind to screen-record and show me? I tried myself but could not find anything? Maby I’m doin it wrong..
I'll try to do a quick tutorial if I get a min 😊
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, Illbeoveryou said:
Okey. I have a friend who thinks he can change the outcome of the bonus by stopping the reels. I believe it’s already predetermined. Maby I’m wrong here but it would be fun to know if their is a way to check.
He's wrong. Stopping the reels does nothing. And yes, if you turn on the network monitor in Chrome dev tools, you will be able to view the game requests/responses with a timestamp. You'll likely be able to see the result of the entire round in there long before the graphics play it out.
It does depend on the game provider though. BTG, for instance, send every spin to the RNG (even each spin in a bonus round), however you will still see the result of that spin come back in the communications, and then the graphics will show it, so stopping the reels still wouldn't do anything.
-
It should be. It depends on the implementation, but it's likely to be displayed in the results response message from the server after you press the spin button.
-
1
-
-
27 minutes ago, Stevej said:
No, I don't think so. RTP for Crazy Time bonus is calculated when you keep on rolling that bonus like 1 billions rounds. They can't model how much players would win/bet in certain times.
By the way, you can see the amount of players of Crazy Time here: https://evotracker.live/
It varies a lot from 1000 players to 9000 players depending of time, or if it's week/weekend.
Actual RTP is literally calculated with the formula
(Total Payout / Total stake) * 100
So if you only paid out big wins when there were less players, total payout would be lower which would reduce actual rtp lower than the theoretical rtp.
The theoretical rtp of Crazy Time is calculated for the whole game, not each bonus in isolation.
-
1 minute ago, Stevej said:
Their RTP is definitely correct. No doubt about it. But I have to copy my answer from the another post.
People often don't realise that rigging the game has many benefits. The reason is not that they would win anyway so no point for rigging. The real reasons are:
1) Making people to deposit and play more money
2) Making people more addictive in the game
3) Make people think that the bonus / big win must hit soon
They could also multiply their winnings if they avoid certain situations like paying big wins when 9000 players actively playing the game. I'm not saying that they do this, but I'm just talking about the benefits of rigging - and it's not about tweaking the rtp.
Rigging wouldn't achieve any of those things. RTP is calculated across all players. It's the total money staked on the game vs the total paid out. So limiting the big payouts to only when there are less players would simply reduce the RTP.
For points 1), 2) and 3), good math models do the same thing (which is why so much effort is put in to tuning a games math model so that it feels fun to play while still having a sub 100 RTP.) In fact, good maths is the bulk of good game design. A game can be as pretty as you want, but with poor maths it will feel horrible to play.
-
3 hours ago, Nobby said:
Is it in any way legal to rig it as suggested? Would they actually take the risk if not?
No, it's not legal and no, the Casino's do not take that risk (they don't need to. The games make money legally using maths and statistics).
2 hours ago, Stevej said:Yes, I agree. I've made that mistake in the past. I played it too high stakes and lost lots of money. It's fun game, but super sad it's rigged. I believe all the games are rigged.
I wanted to show these statistics that people would be really careful when playing these games. These machines work with rng's that are highly manipulated. For @Nobby 's question, I believe they are not doing anything illegal. Laws allow them to manipulate these games, or tweak them in their favor, if they will be at least some randomness.
The RNG's are certified as random by independent bodies and any manipulation of the RNG or the game results would indeed be illegal, lose a Casino their license and basically put them out of business. No Casino in a regulated market will take that risk.
All the games work on mathematical models that statistically make money (Crazy Time is no exception). As always, there is no reason to 'rig' the game and take that risk, the game already makes money perfectly legally by having a profitable math model.
All games publish their RTP (which is calculated based on the math model of the game). If a game were to be significantly out from its RTP, the regulator would get involved and check it. So 'rigging' a game would still need to produce a result that met the RTP. If the math model of the game already produces this result normally, what would be the point in rigging it to produce the same result? 🙂
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, pausefisk said:
Interesting, but in order to exclude all spins played with sponsored cash, is the platform and slot provider involded in those deal? How can the casino decide on behalf of the providers "this spin you dont get paid for..." ?
There is no single answer to that, as it really comes down to specific commercial arrangements, but on the platform I worked on, it was my company who ran the reports and prepared all the profit reports. We would then invoice the Casino for our share and inform the game providers what to invoice. While this was before the age of streamers etc, we could have easily been asked to prepare the report but exclude all play from users X, Y and Z.
As the platform provider, we wouldn't have needed to be involved in the deal with any specific sponsored player, but we would have had to have an agreement with the Casino that 'Certain play or contributions will be exempt from profit calculations' as a specific clause in our contract with the Casino. The Casino would then just provide a list of exceptions each month to us (but we wouldn't care who or what those exemptions were, or what deal they had. Just that they were legitimate deductions.
This never happened BTW, but that's likely how we would have done it should the scenario have existed back then.
I have a friend who is a commercial director in the industry still and does these kinds of contracts all the time. I'll ask if he's seen anything like that.
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, The Macho Man said:
Think your numbers might be backwards. I dont think casinos get 80% id say they probably get like 5-15% the game provider getting the majority of the profit. hence why the providers pay all the jackpots and big wins.
My numbers are accurate. I've supplied services under a number of these contracts as the platform provider 😊
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, BoudewijnB said:
What doesn’t make sense? Casino gives him money to play with. He plays with it and anything he “loses” just goes straight back to the casino. Casino only “loses” money once he cashes out and puts the money into his own pocket. Not that hard to understand haha
Not quite true. Most games are on a rev share model, so the casino gets 80% ish, the platform gets 12% ish and the game provider gets 8% ish of the monthly profits.
That said, I expect they would just exclude the play of sponsored players when doing their profit calculations, so in this instance I would guess that you're right and the casino is only 'losing' their 25% of cash outs.
-
It's that time again! A new BTG game in their 'Danger! High Voltage' line means a new technical analysis to see what the best symbols are and other info. For those who haven't seen these before, here is the link to the Lil Devil one (which has a link to Danger! High Voltage)
So, on with the analysis!
Super Bonus
So the super bonus is pretty hard to get. There is only 1 instance of the Super Scatter on reel 6, and the reel has 245 stop positions. This means there are 4 possible stop positions where the Super Scatter can land and so the probability of landing it on each spin is 1.63% or, on average, once every 61 spins.
There are 16 occurrences of the regular scatters on reels 1-5 (none on reel 6) and those reels are between 150 and 170 symbols long.
Heart Beats Faster
It looks like it's possible for the Heart Beats Faster bonus to actually retrigger into a Super bonus, as there is an instance of the Super Scatter on reel 6. With only 173 stop positions on reel 6, its probability of appearing raises to 2.31%, or once every 43 spins.
However there are only 12 instances of the regular scatters on reels 1-5 (none on reel 6 again), on reels that are 170-180 symbols long, so the probability of a retrigger is quite a lot lower than the probability of triggering a bonus (let alone a retrigger into a Super).
Super Heart Beats Faster
Super Heart Beats Faster is interesting. There are 24 instances of the scatter on reels 1-6, with reels between 177-184 symbols long, so the probability of a retrigger is actually higher. However, the reel sets massively increase the number of low paying symbols (9's go from 117 instances up to a whacking 170) and also drop the instances of high paying symbols down quite a lot as well. This means that, despite the possibility of the big multiplier, you're likely to be hitting it on lower paying symbols the majority of the time.
The Most Beautiful Thing
The biggest change in this bonus over DHV and Lil Devil, is the removal of 'bad' symbols. You can only get 9, 10, J, Q, K, A as the selected symbol. While the frequencies of these symbols still vary quite a lot, it still means that your variance of bonuses should be more consistent. The frequencies are as follows (and symbols are ordered best to worst, although in some cases, there's barely anything in it)
Symbol Frequency Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5 Nine 38 11 7 11 9 Ten 34 11 14 7 2 Queen 33 13 14 3 3 Jack 32 11 13 4 4 King 32 11 13 6 2 Ace 31 12 11 4 4 As usual, 9 is still the best symbol in terms of frequency, but the others don't really have a lot between them.
Super The Most Beautiful Thing
Ok, on to the super bonus. This is another interesting one. As usual, the symbol frequencies even out, so there isn't really a 'bad' symbol, but the frequencies are actually higher than in the regular bonus (with similar sized reel sets) so the chances of landing a wild (and then a repeated wild) are higher in general. As before, the frequencies are below in order of best to worst (again though, not a lot in it)
Symbol Frequency Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5 Nine 40 11 11 11 7 Ten 39 13 14 10 2 King 39 11 13 11 4 Queen 38 13 14 7 4 Jack 38 12 14 8 4 Ace 38 12 12 9 5
Conclusion
So that's about it, i've not actually played the game for real money yet (not on any of my regular Casino's yet) but it's obvious they've really gone for volatility in this game. That means you're likely to lose a lot, and hit a lot of below average bonuses, but we'll probably see a few entries in the Casinogrounds videos of some monster wins. Personally I don't think it's going to be more fun than DHV (for me), as the super high volatility is likely to make it painful to play, but it will def find it's audiences, and the features are, as usual, solid and well though out (and better than Lil Devil in my opinion, as you don't have to 'build' the super bonus).
Shout if you have questions!
-
2
-
4
-
-
1 hour ago, chiefemptybottle said:
Actually they do, there's one famous comment to data on 2+2: If its random, how come scatters always make it below the line, or just above in a "tease" setup? - How come premiums suddenly stop appearing in a bonus when hit? - How come when you play 3 or 1 line in a 10 (or more) line game the big wins hit on a non paying line? etc etc - So, they do ACTIVELY work against you. A majority of the casinos "lie" about the real RTP (e.g Leovegas) who write BOD to 96.xx but actually are the lowest possible on PnG 92.xx. (The Casino's can decide this themselves on Play'n'Go machines, but with a fixed minimum).
I dont even think you understand what semantics mean? You can't use the term in a casino debate. The term are used a lot in hyped intellectual conversations, but people docent seem to know what it actually mean. Rigged is the word to use, since casino's are "deliberately" fixed. There's no such thing as "random" since the generated "random number" go through filters that destroy the random in itself totally.The only thing that must be accurate is the symbols displayed. Symbols above and below the winning area can be whatever the game developer wants. Some providers are lazy and just randomize the symbols above and below the winning area, meaning you often see scatters there, even though they would never hit. It's annoying, but not rigged and not illegal.
It's also very common for games to change reel sets when moving to a bonus round, so you will indeed see different quantities of symbols (see my threads about Danger! High Voltage and Lil' Devil). Again, this is standard and not illegal. It's also still random.
So no, games do not 'actively' work against you. They passively do by virtue of their math models and their reel setups.
Casino's in regulated markets do not lie about the real RTP. In fact, they can't. They have to report real RTP vs TRTP and if there is a divergence the game and casino gets investigated by the UKGC. If you believe there is a Casino that is breaking the law here, report them to the UKGC with your evidence and they will be investigated and lose their license.
As I wrote above, the Casino can NOT decide what RTP they want to set for Play N Go games. Play N Go produce multiple RTP versions of their games (so they might do a 92%, 94% and 96% version), the casino then chooses the one they buy. Once bought and placed on the site, the RTP must be displayed and reported on as above. They cannot change to another RTP version without going through testing and regulatory approval.
Semantics: The branch of linguistics related to the meaning of words. Your meaning of 'Rigged' differed to my meaning of 'Rigged', therefore, Semantics. Casino's are not 'deliberately' fixed. They rely on the maths and odds of games to return them a specific margin. Some months a game will lose money, some months it will make money. Overall, it makes money because of statistics.
Of course it's random and it's independently tested and accredited to be so. Just because you transform a random number into a specific range to suit the game you need (I.E, into a stop position on a reel with 150 symbols) does not make it any less random.
-
18 minutes ago, apudekikker said:
Play'N'Go is confirmed rigged, casinos can lower the RTP on their games and they go into 'collect mode' after paying out a big win, NEVER play their scam games.
*sigh*.
No they're not. If they were 'confirmed' rigged they wouldn't be available anymore and play n go would be out of business.
They do not go 'in to collect mode'. No games in a regulated market do. They don't need to and it's illegal to do so.
Casinos cannot change the rtp on the games. Play n go offer multiple rtp versions of their games and the casino can choose the one they put live. Once it is live, they would have to go through some regulatory hoops to change it to a different version, and the rtp would still be displayed in the help file at the correct value.
-
Sure, it's semantics. Rigged implies that the software is actively working against you. Keeping an eye on what you do and making sure you don't win by giving you specific results. Which, of course, isn't the case, so I just prefer that term isn't used as it spreads confusion.
Certainly though, the odds are against you.
LeoVegas true opinion from a long time player.
in Casinos & Sports
Posted
Also I believe there is a regulatory ask that they must put limits on an account based on SoW results, and also a time limit on session per day (which you can get removed, but you must specifically ask for it to be removed).
It sounds like you hit the 'time limit on session per day'. If you contact webchat and ask them to remove that limit, it should go away. (my wife had this on Leo as well)