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The "Randomnes" of slots


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This is going to be a long post about some observations i have done over the two last years of playing slots. Mainly yggdrasil and Netent slots.

Im going to start to say im about 99,9% sure slots in general are not truly random as in the sence anything is possible at any time. Because it is not.

I will start with yggdrasil and the game Cazino zeppelin. When this game first came out i had 3 wildlines on it. And back then you would often get the scatter wild combo on reels 1-2(but not often hitting the third scatter ofcourse.) But it seams they have changed the game because the recent year or so this combo is very rare. And another thing to note. I have collected my stats from 3 casinos on this game. In one casino i have done 46730 spins since august. they could not give me full account history because to much data.

My estimate is around 150-200K spins on this site. At another site i had done about 36000 spins. I estimate i have now about 500-700K spins on this game WITHOUT hitting a wildline or a win above 1000x!!! This game has most definitivly been altered. Some people might say "hey, its highly volatile" but so volatile that not hitting a 1000x win in half a million spins??? That seams to me to be very rigged. Yggdrasil games in general seams very,very dodgy to me.

Now on to Netent.

If anyone has noticed the recent upgrade of their games to HTML5. Most of the games that have been updated seams to play differently. Fore example twin spin used to be a favourite of mine. Now i never play it, because it pays out far less. And the recent update of dead or alive. I have noticed that on reel 3 there is now a scatter 3 positions above a scatter on the same reel????? This was not there before. Obviously the game has been altered. I think the games have been altered to maintain the RTP but pay out fewer big wins. Basicly washing your money without the odds of winning.

Taking into account also it has now been 1 year and 2 months since my last wildline on this game and i play it every week. Estimate about 700-1000 bonus rounds now. I play mostley on 0.90 bets. I noticed also it seams to come far more often on lower bet sizes. Witch also brings me to another thing. It seams the bigger multiplier wins are far more easy on lower bet sizes. When you raise the bets it usually is very ,very poor on most games. Especially high volatile games.

I draw a few conclusions from this. I think either there is some kind of algorythm that keeps track of the wins losses in the spesific casino OR player account. Or the games are altered to keep same RTP but harder to hit the big wins. OR there are several RTP models for the casino operators to chose from.

Also as a side note.

I have played in about all the casinos that runs the softswiss platform. Used to be called: Softswiss N.V but now also goes under, Direx N.V and Jubilee N.V. Im 100% sure the netent games on this site even tough claimed by an affiliate to be running from the casinomudle website netent owner to be fake. Or the games is no way in hell running on 95-98 % RTP. I have played in about 30 of these sites taking sign up offers and all i can get is 3 of a kind wins... Its basicly impossible to win. 

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I dont know if its okay to reply to this, but i cant help myself haha

(The beliefs and information passed on, is from my sole experience )

You are right in one crucial point in this post.

It is basically "impossible to win" as it is a casino game, on a online Casino.

With my experience in Igaming, both professionally and personal, i can't agree with your points regarding the RTP and the altering of games.

The games are, 100% random, and i do not think that huge providers like NetEnt will alter their games. 
The reason for that is that, they simply dont need to . 

You are also correct in your assumption that the games have slightly changed in the presentation of the game, but again, i do not think that it actually has any impact more than the placebo effect that we are experiencing . - the animation can be showing as a bit different, ( i have heard from a few of my players, personally i dont see any big chances in the graphic or how the machine spins ) 

Please note that when they changed the games - and/or  if any RTP will/was to be altered the Regulators would have to check the games again, this has (as far as i am informed not been the case) and because of that - the RTP shouldn't have been changed drastically if any at all. 

So play on the recomended slots from trusted affiliates (like CG) and you will be quite safe when playing online


Good luck ! 

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If slots weren't random, why would sites ban certain slots from wagering on a bonus? They have a higher RTP and if they wasn't random they wouldn't care about the RTP since they could control what you win wouldn't they? I'm sure by now, someone who works or worked behind the scenes with slots and how they're made would of said how they aren't random by now, but nobody has said anything apart from how random slots are when people doubt, so it's obvious to me that they are all 100% random but I do agree sometimes slots play like they aren't, especially Rhino... always plays the same for me... badly :(

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Interesting topic! However, OP, if you are playing on verified / trusted casinos you can be 100% sure that slots are random. Even with updated graphics (which is basically eye candy of the result of the RNG) RTP stays the same and randomness as well. Keep in mind, while you did a lot of spins that following can apply - your return of wagered spins can be scattered into smaller pieces of payouts or few big payouts - and RTP will stay the same in that case. Sometimes it will be big payouts sometimes small, but claiming something has been changed to the machines it's just a tinfoil hat theory :)

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Speaking of the "randomnes" of slots, something has always confused me. If a slotmachine has a theoretical RTP of 95%, meaning there is a house edge of 5%, how can this still be random? Somewhere inside the machine it's determined to give the house an edge of 5%, so it's scripted somewhere to give that 5% in the long term? And if thats the case, how can it still be "random"?

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15 hours ago, XaverNL said:

Speaking of the "randomnes" of slots, something has always confused me. If a slotmachine has a theoretical RTP of 95%, meaning there is a house edge of 5%, how can this still be random? Somewhere inside the machine it's determined to give the house an edge of 5%, so it's scripted somewhere to give that 5% in the long term? And if thats the case, how can it still be "random"?

Because not everybody loses on slots. There are winnersome and losers short term that makes the slot random.

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Ironicly i got a wildline on Dead or alive yesterday on the HTML5 version. 3 time playin gthis version of the game and i win about 2500x stake.

But im still sure that some casinos are running different versions of the slots. With lower RTP. There are certain sites that always pay shockingly bad. Bad luck happens but in the long run its unusual to always experience the worst RTP, even when losing. And also to me sometimes it feels like its not the games themselves but the "system" or some algorythem that decides the autcome. Like its decided when you deposit how much you will win or lose. To be honest i dont even think slot choice matters.

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Well the Most fun part is that its exactly not Random, But for every person its Random. There is a whole article on the internet about it. A computer cant handle Random numbers. So their is some kind of algorithmy wich decides if you Win or not. This algorithem has different kind of bases. A base could be par example: the time between your spins. The computer use this as a base and add numbers wich decides the outcome of your spin. Cause every symbol on the reels have some kind of number. The rtp is decided after testing the slot for a million of spins. Its still a theoratical number.

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I have to say I don't find much of what the OP has to say as being at all credible.  I also think that once a certain mindset kicks in i.e. "it's rigged" that these views become entrenched and v. unlikely to change so I won't offer a counter argument.

I have one question for the OP which makes me slightly curious is how many wild lines did you expect for 700k spins and what do you base that expectation on?

To pick up on a point made by kas0303 that any change to game RTP requires recertification - a thought occurred to me that from what I can gather it is indeed RTP which mandates recertification of a game should it change. But what if a game was altered with different win distribution but the same RTP....does that automatically require a recertification? Common sense would suggest it does but whether that is the case I'm not entirely sure. The only games I can think of which did alter RTP were the thunderkick games - bird on a wire and some others which I can't recall but in the UK at least I think they required recertification. But how you find any official record of this I don't know. I assume netent Frankenstein would also have required recertification. My point is that if this compliance is mandatory and there is a public record of it then there might be a way to get a definite answer as to whether or not providers are tinkering around with the game mathematics instead of all the innuendo which nobody can evidence is either true or false. Or....netent could stick their head above the parapet once in a while and actually address the question directly. How about a casinogrounds exclusive from netent direct? ;-)



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